Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[kjw47]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

Creation proves he exists. In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then. Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.
And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

[JoeyKnothead]

Creation proves he exists.

How so?

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then. Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.
And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Please present some means of confirming this, without referring to a book written after the 'fact'.

[POI]

There is so much to unpack here. Thank you for your response.

Creation proves he exists.

When you say 'creation', can you please clarify? Case/point, the Grand Canyon was 'created' by water. Meaning, 'creation' needs clarification. Case/point, if everything was 'created', are you able to distinguish WHO or WHAT 'created' the observed 'phenomenon' in ALL cases? If not, then your entire given above argument appeals to fallacious argumentation. Meaning, that looks 'created', therefore "God". And not just any 'god', but the God I believe in....

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then.

Well, I've read the Bible, and it appears the authors had limited knowledge to how the 'universe' actually works. I guess the first question would be... "Hey Bible writer, what was your intent, when you wrote this or that passage?" We cannot ask them. They are long dead. The mere fact you have YEC's, OEC's, while reading from the same book, is clue #1 that the book can be 'interpreted' in a multitude of ways -- even from the most earnest and well-meaning of readers.

Further, the book is not specific enough. You can get out of it, many differing things. Many of these assertions are vague.

You could also read Nostradamus and 'conclude' he was right about many things. Hence, making him have 'foreknowledge.' So what?

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.

It's easy to accept the 'hits', and ignore the misses. The Bible also states the city of Tyre will be no more. But it's still around. But even still, we have countless people who claim to read the future. Would this make them truly divine, if true? Probably not. It would just mean it becomes another countless claim of reading the future, or talking to the dead, etc.... So this argument will likely go nowhere, fast...

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Speak to a JW, and they will have hit the "reset button" a few times on this already. Meaning, they have moved the goalposts. It's very easy for any Christian, in any era between the first century, and now, to think they are living in the 'end times'. Until it would actually happen, Christians have carte blanche to unfalsifiably make such claims until the cows come home. I.E. "It's gonna happen, you just wait and see."

Further, the book of "Revelation" may be the vaguest book of them all?

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

[Tcg]

Creation proves he exists.

How so?

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then. Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.
And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Please present some means of confirming this, without referring to a book written after the 'fact'.

Come on, Joey. Don't you accept special pleading? God created creation, therefore God.


Tcg

[kjw47]

Creation proves he exists.

How so?

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then. Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.
And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Please present some means of confirming this, without referring to a book written after the 'fact'.

You have watched revelation 13 for years.
A prophecy from daniel pointed to revelation 6 being 1914--It said 2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem--607 bce that occurred so 607 -2520= 1914--And at rev 6 it says he will receive his crown= Jesus is the only one getting the crown, but Michael was named as the rider of that white horse, it was the war in heaven, satan and his angels lost and were cast to the earth. Notice in Rev 6 and peace was taken from the earth = not a single war but a world war ww1 proving the accuracy of that prophecy in Daniel occurring in 1914. Satan came angry knowing his time was short. He filled mens hearts with hatred thus ww1, Millions slaughtered, after ww1 millions upon millions died of the things mentioned of the other 3 riders of Rev 6. We are over 100 years past that in the book of revelation. Its nearing the end.

[kjw47]

There is so much to unpack here. Thank you for your response.

Creation proves he exists.

When you say 'creation', can you please clarify? Case/point, the Grand Canyon was 'created' by water. Meaning, 'creation' needs clarification. Case/point, if everything was 'created', are you able to distinguish WHO or WHAT 'created' the observed 'phenomenon' in ALL cases? If not, then your entire given above argument appeals to fallacious argumentation. Meaning, that looks 'created', therefore "God". And not just any 'god', but the God I believe in....

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then.

Well, I've read the Bible, and it appears the authors had limited knowledge to how the 'universe' actually works. I guess the first question would be... "Hey Bible writer, what was your intent, when you wrote this or that passage?" We cannot ask them. They are long dead. The mere fact you have YEC's, OEC's, while reading from the same book, is clue #1 that the book can be 'interpreted' in a multitude of ways -- even from the most earnest and well-meaning of readers.

Further, the book is not specific enough. You can get out of it, many differing things. Many of these assertions are vague.

You could also read Nostradamus and 'conclude' he was right about many things. Hence, making him have 'foreknowledge.' So what?

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.

It's easy to accept the 'hits', and ignore the misses. The Bible also states the city of Tyre will be no more. But it's still around. But even still, we have countless people who claim to read the future. Would this make them truly divine, if true? Probably not. It would just mean it becomes another countless claim of reading the future, or talking to the dead, etc.... So this argument will likely go nowhere, fast...

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Speak to a JW, and they will have hit the "reset button" a few times on this already. Meaning, they have moved the goalposts. It's very easy for any Christian, in any era between the first century, and now, to think they are living in the 'end times'. Until it would actually happen, Christians have carte blanche to unfalsifiably make such claims until the cows come home. I.E. "It's gonna happen, you just wait and see."

Further, the book of "Revelation" may be the vaguest book of them all?

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

In 1879 C.T.Russell stated-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--How did he know yet no other on earth did? This is how-a prophecy from Daniel. From the removal of the last king in Jerusalem= 607 bce, 2520 years pointed to revelation 6. 607-2520= 1914--Rev 6 states and peace will be taken from the earth = ww1 not a single war. The ride of the white horse= righteous war-It was the war in heaven, Michael battled satan and his angels and cast them out of heaven forever to the earth. He came angry knowing his time was short. filled mens hearts with hatred and millions upon millions were slaughtered, after ww1 millions upon millions more died from things mentioned of the other 3 riders. They estimate the spanish flu alone killed between 50-100 million on the earth. But notice it says-he receives his crown. Only Jesus gets the crown proving Michael is the one God sent to the earth and was named Jesus as a mortal. (1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return comes with the voice of the archangel) it is his voice. Jesus is pictured riding the white horse at armageddon. its the same ride, it began at rev 6 and does not end until 1Corinthians 15:24-28 occurs. Daniel 12:1--It is Michael who stands up for Gods chosen in the last days.
These prophecys coming true show God is real. All have watched Rev 13 occur for years now. But 99% are in darkness.

[JoeyKnothead]

You have watched revelation 13 for years.
A prophecy from daniel pointed to revelation 6 being 1914--It said 2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem--607 bce that occurred so 607 -2520= 1914--And at rev 6 it says he will receive his crown= Jesus is the only one getting the crown, but Michael was named as the rider of that white horse, it was the war in heaven, satan and his angels lost and were cast to the earth.

Please present something other'n the book making the claims by which we may confirm this tale.

Notice in Rev 6 and peace was taken from the earth = not a single war but a world war ww1 proving the accuracy of that prophecy in Daniel occurring in 1914. Satan came angry knowing his time was short. He filled mens hearts with hatred thus ww1, Millions slaughtered, after ww1 millions upon millions died of the things mentioned of the other 3 riders of Rev 6. We are over 100 years past that in the book of revelation. Its nearing the end.

Where have you established this Satan feller existed, and where have you established, beyond the book making the claims, that he did as you say?

The liar lies, and the preacher preaches.

[Tcg]

All have watched Rev 13 occur for years now.

I haven't.

But 99% are in darkness.

I'm not. We got electricity back in the 60s.


Tcg

[POI]

There is so much to unpack here. Thank you for your response.

Creation proves he exists.

When you say 'creation', can you please clarify? Case/point, the Grand Canyon was 'created' by water. Meaning, 'creation' needs clarification. Case/point, if everything was 'created', are you able to distinguish WHO or WHAT 'created' the observed 'phenomenon' in ALL cases? If not, then your entire given above argument appeals to fallacious argumentation. Meaning, that looks 'created', therefore "God". And not just any 'god', but the God I believe in....

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then.

Well, I've read the Bible, and it appears the authors had limited knowledge to how the 'universe' actually works. I guess the first question would be... "Hey Bible writer, what was your intent, when you wrote this or that passage?" We cannot ask them. They are long dead. The mere fact you have YEC's, OEC's, while reading from the same book, is clue #1 that the book can be 'interpreted' in a multitude of ways -- even from the most earnest and well-meaning of readers.

Further, the book is not specific enough. You can get out of it, many differing things. Many of these assertions are vague.

You could also read Nostradamus and 'conclude' he was right about many things. Hence, making him have 'foreknowledge.' So what?

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.

It's easy to accept the 'hits', and ignore the misses. The Bible also states the city of Tyre will be no more. But it's still around. But even still, we have countless people who claim to read the future. Would this make them truly divine, if true? Probably not. It would just mean it becomes another countless claim of reading the future, or talking to the dead, etc.... So this argument will likely go nowhere, fast...

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Speak to a JW, and they will have hit the "reset button" a few times on this already. Meaning, they have moved the goalposts. It's very easy for any Christian, in any era between the first century, and now, to think they are living in the 'end times'. Until it would actually happen, Christians have carte blanche to unfalsifiably make such claims until the cows come home. I.E. "It's gonna happen, you just wait and see."

Further, the book of "Revelation" may be the vaguest book of them all?

So far, in staying true to the question in the OP, you have made absolutely no demonstration of the Christian God.

In 1879 C.T.Russell stated-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--How did he know yet no other on earth did? This is how-a prophecy from Daniel. From the removal of the last king in Jerusalem= 607 bce, 2520 years pointed to revelation 6. 607-2520= 1914--Rev 6 states and peace will be taken from the earth = ww1 not a single war. The ride of the white horse= righteous war-It was the war in heaven, Michael battled satan and his angels and cast them out of heaven forever to the earth. He came angry knowing his time was short. filled mens hearts with hatred and millions upon millions were slaughtered, after ww1 millions upon millions more died from things mentioned of the other 3 riders. They estimate the spanish flu alone killed between 50-100 million on the earth. But notice it says-he receives his crown. Only Jesus gets the crown proving Michael is the one God sent to the earth and was named Jesus as a mortal. (1Thess 4:16--Upon Jesus return comes with the voice of the archangel) it is his voice. Jesus is pictured riding the white horse at armageddon. its the same ride, it began at rev 6 and does not end until 1Corinthians 15:24-28 occurs. Daniel 12:1--It is Michael who stands up for Gods chosen in the last days.
These prophecys coming true show God is real. All have watched Rev 13 occur for years now. But 99% are in darkness.

Hmm... I took the time to specifically answer your previous replies in detail. Looks as though you side-stepped/ignored all of that, to instead push forth your agenda. Until you address what I actually responded to, in my previous post, I'm not going to instead go chasing your given arbitrary and unfounded rabbit trails.

The ball is in your court. Failure to do so, means you likely have no response, via post 183.

[TRANSPONDER]

Creation proves he exists.

How so?

In the OT those bible writers taught things about earth and outer space no one could know back then. Some of the things werent proven to be truth, by man until the 1800,s. The Prophet Isaiah foretold that a man named Cyrus would bring Babylon down 200 years prior to that occurrence.
And the biggest one of all--all have watched revelation passing before their eyes for well over 100 years. Its getting close to the end.

Please present some means of confirming this, without referring to a book written after the 'fact'.

You have watched revelation 13 for years.
A prophecy from daniel pointed to revelation 6 being 1914--It said 2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem--607 bce that occurred so 607 -2520= 1914--And at rev 6 it says he will receive his crown= Jesus is the only one getting the crown, but Michael was named as the rider of that white horse, it was the war in heaven, satan and his angels lost and were cast to the earth. Notice in Rev 6 and peace was taken from the earth = not a single war but a world war ww1 proving the accuracy of that prophecy in Daniel occurring in 1914. Satan came angry knowing his time was short. He filled mens hearts with hatred thus ww1, Millions slaughtered, after ww1 millions upon millions died of the things mentioned of the other 3 riders of Rev 6. We are over 100 years past that in the book of revelation. Its nearing the end.

Daniel has been shown to be Retrospective prophecy'. written after the event, getting the Babylonian events a bit off the record, but the events of the Seleucid wars are correct in the events (even meticulous), presented in prophetic terms, being matchable to the history, the prophecy finally going wrong regarding the events about the 2nd c B.C. This is pretty compelling evidence that the Daniel prophecy was written shortly before the Maccabean revolt (and i reckon is a propaganda for revolt of the time, and is not a real prophecy. There is evidence that Biblical prophecy often works that way, writing the history afterwards to look like prophecy.

I can't speak to the prophecy of 1914, but one thing I've learned in debating with Bible -apologogists is never take their claims at face value.

Ok Wiki has this to say.

"The second failure in 1881 precipitated a more serious crisis in the Bible Student ranks and for several years Russell's followers waited for the belated translation to occur.[5] Russell's chronological timetable had already identified 1914 as the ultimate end of the "time of trouble", and this preserved the commitment of followers who might have been discouraged by their failed expectations for 1881.[13] Yet many members found it inconceivable that their earthly departure might be delayed that long."

So it seems that the lucky coincidence of 1914 being mentioned was tweaked in what you presented as predicting the start of the trouble, but in fact was claimed as the culmination, which didn't happen either as the end of the war or the End times. So you have tried to bamboozle us, sunshine.