Who are the "groomers"?

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Jose Fly
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Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Jose Fly »

On Sunday, a report summarizing an independent investigation into sexual abuse in US Southern Baptist churches was released. The investigation uncovered some very disturbing details:
1. Top leaders repeatedly tried to bury sex abuse claims and lied about what they could do

The report describes how key Southern Baptist leaders engaged in a pattern of ignoring, stonewalling and even “vilifying” sex abuse survivors. The report details multiple instances when Southern Baptist leaders shot down requests by survivors and other concerned members to maintain a database of abusers. Publicly, the leaders said they couldn’t because of “church polity,” or the denomination’s decentralized structure. But the report found that their attorneys had advised them that they could keep such a list and that the leaders did so in secret.

2. A former SBC president was considered “credibly accused” of sexual assault

3. Unheeded warnings went on for decades

The report also described a series of instances when leaders ignored warnings by sex abuse survivors and advocates. In 2016, a person called to report a pastor’s involvement in abuse of her mother. According to the report, a staff member for the Executive Committee asked Boto, “Do I call this lady back? I suspect no.” No documents indicate a follow-up response, the report said.

4. Leaders seemed to put concern over potential litigation over people’s safety

Southern Baptist leaders appeared to value avoiding lawsuits over preventing sexual abuse, according to the report, which stated, “it is striking that many reform efforts were met with resistance, typically due to concerns over incurring legal liability.” For example, based on outside counsel, leaders recommended removing the word “crisis” when referring to sex abuse.
When we put this together with similar problems in the Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormon Church, it's quite apparent that US Christianity has a widespread and long-running problem with sexual abuse and covering it up.

As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers" (people who manipulate and prepare victims for abuse). From they way they tell it, transgender people are constantly lurking in bathrooms, ready to assault unsuspecting children and women, and LGBTQ teachers and school officials are "grooming" students to become future victims. From that hateful and bigoted position they seek to use the force of government to relegate LGBTQs to second-class status.

Yet in reality, children are at far greater risk from being abused in Christian settings! And when that becomes apparent, Christians take deliberate steps to not only cover it up, but demonize the victims and protect the abusers!

So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #41

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #40]

From a personal level, it breaks my heart whenever I hear of such abuse no matter where it occurs. This is particularly painful because the first church my family attended was Southern Baptist and a biggie so to speak. H. L. Hunt was one of our fellow members and our pastor, W. A. Criswell, made a big stand for the inerrancy of scripture when many Baptists were moving away from that doctrine.

Not that I agree with much of anything that church represented or taught, but something about an institution from your childhood being involved in such disgusting activity is particularly upsetting.


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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #42

Post by Jose Fly »

Tcg wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:43 pm [Replying to Jose Fly in post #40]

From a personal level, it breaks my heart whenever I hear of such abuse no matter where it occurs. This is particularly painful because the first church my family attended was Southern Baptist and a biggie so to speak. H. L. Hunt was one of our fellow members and our pastor, W. A. Criswell, made a big stand for the inerrancy of scripture when many Baptists were moving away from that doctrine.

Not that I agree with much of anything that church represented or taught, but something about an institution from your childhood being involved in such disgusting activity is particularly upsetting.


Tcg
That's completely understandable. For me, it's not just that these terrible things happen in Christian settings, it's the cover-ups. If, upon discovering abusers in their midst, these Christian communities were better at immediately isolating the abusers and turning them over to authorities they would have a lot more credibility and there'd be less abuse. Instead, so many of these stories involve cover-ups, victim-shaming, and protection of abusers.

Throw in their repeated hateful rhetoric and accusations against the LGBTQ community and....well....you get threads like this.

IMO, many of them truly are terrible people.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #43

Post by William »

So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?
I think it is a case of the evolution of Human ethics and some being quicker at changing than others.
Add to that the religious finger-pointing, those who offend from such positions are naturally regarded as the worst, and it looks worse for that, than when committed by other groups who are not preaching the same sermon, or any sermon at all.

Once upon a time Humans behaved in such ways as a matter of nature - much like dolphins are seen to commit rape but are not seen to be sinning therein.

Incest was normal once.

The changes have come about through identifying actions which damage others, and seeking to do something about that.

Rape, slavery, incest, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abuses are slowly identified and laws enacted in order to curb the practices - some learn faster than others.

Some Christians argue that those Christians who practice such things are not really Christians at all, citing the words of Jesus as evidence.

Others argue that the words of Jesus being bound within the Bible alongside the words of rapists, slavers, incestual, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abusers and that Jesus himself being reported to have caused physical distress to stall-holders in the temple and olive trees, aren't helpful to the process of learning to identify actions which damage others, and seeking to do something to cease with that type of behaviour.

And if we regard the current warnings about climate change and heading for a possible extinction event - this time caused by humans - we might understand that none of us have the moral high-ground, regardless of what position we hold on matters of God and stuff like that.

Perhaps too much judging and not enough doing [hypocrisy] will be the source-reason for our own extinction?

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #44

Post by oldbadger »

Aetixintro wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:20 pm
At least the Christians care for morality along with other religious people.
They all do? Apparently not.
Satanists do not, perhaps they groom.
Do you know any Satanists? Personally?
Atheists unlike Humanists don't care for morality (or they would have been Humanists), perhaps they groom.
An atheist can be a humanist. My guess is that most atheists are humanists.
Sure, there are some hypocrites among the religious, but other groups are only rotten apples and they celebrate it too! :(
:thanks:
I'm in another group, I'm a deist recently been introduced to Ignosticism, a kind of 'Don't know don't care' opinion.
What have you heard about the likes of me? *shivers*

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #45

Post by Jose Fly »

Four Jehovah’s Witnesses charged with sexual abuse of 19 children across Pennsylvania

(RNS) — Four Jehovah’s Witnesses have been charged with sexually abusing 19 children in their congregations, Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro announced in a news conference Thursday morning (Oct. 27). The alleged crimes of the four defendants are separate, but all took place in Jehovah’s Witness communities in Pennsylvania. The charges include indecent assault, rape and involuntary deviate sexual intercourse.

“The cases that we are here to announce are deeply disturbing, the allegations hard to imagine, while all sharing one common tie,” Shapiro said at the news conference. “Most of these defendants used their faith and church to gain access to their victims to build their trust and then molested them.”

The charges are the result of a three-year investigation involving dozens of witnesses and hundreds of hours of grand jury testimony. The investigation began with a referral from a local district attorney’s office in 2019. Three of the defendants have been taken into custody — the fourth took his life when officers attempted to arrest him early Thursday, authorities said.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #46

Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:06 pm Four Jehovah’s Witnesses charged with sexual abuse of 19 children across Pennsylvania

(RNS) — Four Jehovah’s Witnesses have been charged with sexually abusing 19 children in their congregations, Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro announced in a news conference Thursday morning (Oct. 27). The alleged crimes of the four defendants are separate, but all took place in Jehovah’s Witness communities in Pennsylvania. The charges include indecent assault, rape and involuntary deviate sexual intercourse.

“The cases that we are here to announce are deeply disturbing, the allegations hard to imagine, while all sharing one common tie,” Shapiro said at the news conference. “Most of these defendants used their faith and church to gain access to their victims to build their trust and then molested them.”

The charges are the result of a three-year investigation involving dozens of witnesses and hundreds of hours of grand jury testimony. The investigation began with a referral from a local district attorney’s office in 2019. Three of the defendants have been taken into custody — the fourth took his life when officers attempted to arrest him early Thursday, authorities said.
So........... when are the trials?

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #47

Post by Jose Fly »

That info wasn't in the article, so I don't know.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #48

Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:08 pm That info wasn't in the article, so I don't know.
Well that's important, surely?

There may well be some convictions, but a trial can be reported and exact details be discovered. Thing is, we don't know if 16 allegations were made against one person and single claims against the other three. etc etc.......

The cases need to be heard.

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #49

Post by Miles »

AG Shapiro Announces Charges Against Four Men for Sexual Abuse of Children Across Pennsylvania

HARRISBURG– Attorney General Josh Shapiro announced criminal charges against four individuals in Pennsylvania, Jesse Hill, formerly of Berks County and now a resident of the state of Georgia, Jose Serrano of Lancaster County, Eric Eleam of Butler County and Robert Ostrander, formerly of Cambria County and now a resident of New York, for the sexual assault and exploitation of children. In each case, all of the defendants’ victims were minors and members of Jehovah’s Witness congregations.

“These cases are disturbing, the allegations hard to imagine, and all share one common tie. The 19 victims and the four men who are being charged with sexually violating them are all members of Jehovah’s Witnesses. These children deserved to be protected and grow up in peace, not to be preyed upon,” said Attorney General Josh Shapiro. “My office will not stop until these defendants are held accountable for their crimes against innocent children and until justice is achieved for these courageous survivors.”

The charges stem from the 49th Investigating Grand Jury and are charged by the Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General. Through the investigation, it was revealed that these men sexually abused and exploited 19 minors with whom they had close contact, in some cases their own children.

The defendants are being prosecuted by the Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General for the following offenses: <--- click on



Image
Jose Serrano, 69,

of Lancaster County is alleged to have molested six young girls, including his own daughter, in 2011. He confessed to committing many of these criminal offenses to the Grand Jury, and admitted to a life-long struggle with deviant impulses. He has been charged with Aggravated Indecent Assault, Indecent Assault, and Endangering the Welfare of Children.



Image
Jesse Hill, 52,

formerly of Berks County, now a resident of the state of Georgia, is alleged to have used his milling business to attract young boys from his Jehovah’s Witness congregation, with promises of alcohol, marijuana, and pornography to his property for parties in the 1990s. Hill would later expose himself to the children, grope them and force them to perform oral sex. The investigation revealed at least 10 victims of Mr. Hill’s abuse. Hill has been charged with Rape, Involuntary Deviate Sexual Intercourse, Indecent Assault, and Corruption of Minors.



Image
Robert Ostrander,

56, formerly of Cambria County, now a resident of New York state, is alleged to have sexually abused at least two minors, including his own step-daughter and her friend. He has been charged with Indecent Assault, Endangering Welfare of Children, and Corruption of Minors.



......NO PHOTO
Eric Eleam, 61,

of Butler County was alleged to have sexually abused his daughter and used sexual molestation as a form of discipline when she was a child. He has been charged with Rape, Involuntary Deviate Sexual intercourse, Aggravated Indecent Assault, and Endangering the Welfare of a Child. When agents from the Office of Attorney General and police from Butler County attempted to take him into custody, he retreated into his bathroom and killed himself behind closed doors.



To note, typical procedure for Federal cases:

After an indictment, which a grand jury hands down, the defendant is taken into custody. The accused will then typically make an initial appearance before a federal Magistrate Judge within 24-72 hours to be read the charges against him.

Then Federal criminal procedures provide for a preliminary hearing within ten days of arrest on a Complaint. During this hearing, prosecutors offer evidence to establish probable cause to a Magistrate Judge. After that, once prosecutors file an indictment in federal court, the case must proceed to trial within 70 days.

So, considering that the presentment of facts to the Grand Jury did not conclude until Oct. 27, 2022 after which the Attorney General made his charges, the trial dates for each of the accused have, in all likelihood, not yet been set.

.

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #50

Post by oldbadger »

Miles wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:56 pm AG Shapiro Announces Charges Against Four Men for Sexual Abuse of Children Across Pennsylvania
Thank you for the details about the charges.
I will be interested to read about the Court verdicts and any sentences.

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