The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

[Diogenes]

The proposition for debate is that when one takes the tales of Genesis literally, one becomes intellectually disabled, at least temporarily. Taking Genesis literally requires one to reject biology (which includes evolution) and other sciences in favor of 'magic.' Geology and radiometric dating have to be rejected since the Earth formed only about 6000 years ago, during the same week the Earth was made (in a single day).

Much of the debate in the topic of Science and Religion consists of theists who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis rejecting basic science. Most of the resulting debates are not worth engaging in.

[dad1]

You've proved my thesis very well; there is no point in trying to discuss with you the real world as understood by the sciences.

You have an opinion of what the real world is. No wonder you seem to want to avoid supporting that.

Let me ask a distantly related question I'll make part of a new subtopic:

Why would a being so vast and powerful that it could create not just our entire world just by thinking it so, but the universe as well, why would such an entity rely on an ancient nomadic tribe and copies of copies, translations of translations by dozens of different authors to communicate with us?

Because He felt like it? Who are we to question why? One reason might have been that when we saw prophesies over scores of centuries being fulfilled perfectly we would get the hint He sent the book.

Such an all powerful and unimaginable intelligence could easily communicate with each and every individual directly and continuously. 'Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God. Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows.

He did communicate by descending to this cesspool of a world and dying for us at the hands of depraved and monstrous people. He told us that His Scripture was from Him when He was here also. He proved it as well by fulfilling hundreds of prophesies. He further communicates with all who accept Him in our lives and forevermore.

[Diogenes]

Why do you say that young earth creationists reject basic science?

Because they do. There are many Christians of good faith who are scientists and also believe in God. Most have a reasonable view of scripture and accept its symbolic and allegorical nature as literature inspired by God. Others ruin their careers and frustrate themselves because they cannot let go of this false idol of taking the stories of Genesis literally as if they represent historical fact. Kurt Wise is representative:

Richard Dawkins called Wise a truly honest creationist because he is willing to accept creationism even if he admitted "all the evidence in the universe" was against it.

"Kurt Wise doesn't need the challenge; he volunteers that, even if all the evidence in the universe flatly contradicted Scripture, and even if he had reached the point of admitting this to himself, he would still take his stand on Scripture and deny the evidence. This leaves me, as a scientist, speechless... We have it on the authority of a man who may well be creationism's most highly qualified and most intelligent scientist that no evidence, no matter how overwhelming, no matter how all-embracing, no matter how devastatingly convincing, can ever make any difference."

Further, in his book The God Delusion, Dawkins referred to Wise's denial of science over creationism:

"Kurt Wise story is just plain pathetic – pathetic and contemptible. The wound, to his career and his life’s happiness, was self-inflicted, so unnecessary, so easy to escape. All he had to do was toss out the bible. Or interpret it symbolically, or allegorically, as the theologians do. Instead, he did the fundamentalist thing and tossed out science, evidence and reason, along with all his dreams and hopes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Wise

[Diogenes]

He did communicate by descending to this cesspool of a world and dying for us at the hands of depraved and monstrous people.

[emphasis applied]

This is a beautiful, wondrous world populated by beautiful, loving people (most of whom are not Christians). Your sad and pathetic view of this world and its people is noted. Such a view is the natural result of a sad and unscholarly view of Jewish and Christian scripture. All the more reason why, if there were a God, he would communicate more directly and effectively.

[brunumb]

Why would a being so vast and powerful that it could create not just our entire world just by thinking it so, but the universe as well, why would such an entity rely on an ancient nomadic tribe and copies of copies, translations of translations by dozens of different authors to communicate with us?

Even bigger question. Why would such a being even bother to make creatures who are comparatively lacking in intelligence and engage in worthless mind games with them? Knowing they had been given limited thinking skills, one would surely avoid planting a tempting tree in their garden, not to mention making an apparently more intelligent but wily serpent that was able to speak in a recognisable language.

As to your point, if it had the wherewithal to fine tune the universe to the umpteenth degree, why not apply the same skill to fine tuning his message to humanity so that it was clear to everyone right from the get go? Thousands of interpretations later.......

[dad1]

He did communicate by descending to this cesspool of a world and dying for us at the hands of depraved and monstrous people.

[emphasis applied]

This is a beautiful, wondrous world populated by beautiful, loving people (most of whom are not Christians). Your sad and pathetic view of this world and its people is noted. Such a view is the natural result of a sad and unscholarly view of Jewish and Christian scripture. All the more reason why, if there were a God, he would communicate more directly and effectively.

Your opinion of the views of God and others is noted for what is is worth. Believing in a purpose in the world and universe is actually a great and healthy thing.
Comprehending the true limits and scope of knowledge and science is also a great thing. Try to be more honest and open minded and civil.

[brunumb]

Believing in a purpose in the world and universe is actually a great and healthy thing.

Believing that this is a cesspool of a world full of depraved and monstrous people is the polar opposite. Thank Zeus it is nothing more than just your opinion.

[dad1]

Believing in a purpose in the world and universe is actually a great and healthy thing.

Believing that this is a cesspool of a world full of depraved and monstrous people is the polar opposite. Thank Zeus it is nothing more than just your opinion.

Try to be honest. The people that killed an innocent man in such a monstrous way were as depraved as the day is long. Pretending that this is supposed to mean all people on earth are monsters is knavishly dishonest.
Embracing the religion that earth is just some insignificant little dot in the universe and that it is all an accident is about as sexy as suicide.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #12]

Because they do.

This is not specific. They do not believe in science. What science? I listed many scientists who believe that the earth is young. In fact, one of the main arguments that people use on this forum. "Oh that is an open question in science." You are not even talking about anything that is observable. Unless you are saying you can travel back in time millions of years.

[brunumb]

Believing in a purpose in the world and universe is actually a great and healthy thing.

Believing that this is a cesspool of a world full of depraved and monstrous people is the polar opposite. Thank Zeus it is nothing more than just your opinion.

Try to be honest. The people that killed an innocent man in such a monstrous way were as depraved as the day is long. Pretending that this is supposed to mean all people on earth are monsters is knavishly dishonest.

You wrote: "He did communicate by descending to this cesspool of a world and dying for us at the hands of depraved and monstrous people."
The world was probably no more a cesspool then than it is now, unless of course you have some evidence to the contrary. Innocent people have been killed in monstrous ways in the name of God for centuries. The alleged crucifixion of Jesus was nothing special when considered in that context.

Embracing the religion that earth is just some insignificant little dot in the universe and that it is all an accident is about as sexy as suicide.

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but wishful thinking does nothing to alter reality. If you need God to give your life meaning then go for it. The rest of us find it in other ways. We get one life and it's up to us to make the most of it for ourselves and for others. No God necessary.

[dad1]

You wrote: "He did communicate by descending to this cesspool of a world and dying for us at the hands of depraved and monstrous people."

The people who murdered the innocent were monstrous. The fallen sinful world was a cesspool compared to heaven from where He came. That means that all are sinners and need God to save them. It means the world cannot save itself or be good. He died to save those sinners so they were not monsters as a whole at all. They were fallen mankind.

The world was probably no more a cesspool then than it is now,

The world has been fallen since Adam believed the lying serpent, which, by the way, had the exact same message as so called science today! 'Did God really say you would die? That is not true, don't believe what He says'.

Innocent people have been killed in monstrous ways in the name of God for centuries.

As well as by atheists like leaders of China and Russia etc etc. Murderers that try to hide behind some religious facade no more have the love of God in them, than the Pharisees that had Jesus killed did.

The alleged crucifixion of Jesus was nothing special when considered in that context.

Your alleged opinion is based on absolutely nothing.

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but wishful thinking does nothing to alter reality.

It means that earth is HQ central in this universe. It means God Himself is moving here forever! It means the claims of science by science that earth is just some little blue dot in a universe that is nothing special and was not created are religious nonsense based on nothing at all but belief (and in many cases a hatred of God)

If you need God to give your life meaning then go for it.

God gave us meaning. If you insist on denigrating and demeaning yourself religiously for no reason, that is on you.

The rest of us find it in other ways. We get one life and it's up to us to make the most of it for ourselves and for others. No God necessary.

Whatever you are able to find is determined by your rejection or acceptance of the truth. The insulting way you describe believers displays a lack of wisdom and integrity. Such a delusional position does not come easy or naturally.