Lesson of the fig tree

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Rose2020
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Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by Rose2020 »

In Matthew Ch 21 v.18 to 22 it seems Jesus cursed the fig tree rather unfairly.

If what he says in verse 21-22 is the case, can a Christian pray for destruction and be granted it? I do not ever pray for anyone's demise.

I would appreciate some clarification.

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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jesus did not authorize anyone to curse people; he was not teaching Christians to judge others as being worthy of death, since that is not in the jurisdiction of any human.

WHY DID JESUS CURSE THE FIG TREE?

Jesus cursed the fig tree to illustrate what would happen to the nation of Israel that failed to produce faith in him as their promised Messiah, despite 3 and a half years of evidence. He provided a miraculous visual aid that would long be remembered as to what would happen to the nation that bought Gods curse upon themselves.

TEN INTERESTING FACTS BOUT FIG TREES
  • Figs are believed to have originated in the Middle East and were one of the first fruits to be cultivated by humans
  • In clement climates bear fruit twice a year, in the early summer, and in autumn
  • Fig tree flowers are actually hidden inside the fruit
  • figs are fertilzed by waspss that lay their eggs inside the fruit
  • Fig leaves can grow up to 10 inches long and 7 inches across
  • Figs are high in natural sugars, minerals and soluble fiber.
  • 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of dried figs contain 16% of your daily amount of calcium.
  • In Britain figs became fashionable amongst the 18th century aristocracy coming to represent upper class snobbery thus the british expression “not worth a fig”.
  • Mature fig trees can be 4.5 to 9 meters (15 to 30 feet) tall.
  • Fig trees can live for hundreds of years. The oldest recorded fig tree was over 3,000 years old

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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:45 pm Jesus did not authorize anyone to curse people; he was not teaching Christians to judge others as being worthy of death, since that is not in the jurisdiction of any human.

WHY DID JESUS CURSE THE FIG TREE?

Jesus cursed the fig tree to illustrate what would happen to the nation of Israel that failed to produce faith in him as their promised Messiah, despite 3 and a half years of evidence. He provided a miraculous visual aid that would long be remembered as to what would happen to the nation that bought Gods curse upon themselves.
But fig trees at that time of year weren't ready to bear figs, so what kind of illustration is this? Israel failed to produce faith in him as their promised Messiah because it hadn't had time to do so? So why take it out on Israel just then? Why not wait until the nation had enough time to accomplish god's directive, just as figs required more time to come into season?

Relevant Verse

Mark 11:12-14
12 On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14 And he said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard it.

Honestly, this stupid curse better reflects Jesus's irrational ire than some kind of parable.

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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:45 pm
WHY DID JESUS CURSE THE FIG TREE?

Jesus cursed the fig tree to illustrate what would happen to the nation of Israel that failed to produce faith in him as their promised Messiah, despite 3 and a half years of evidence. He provided a miraculous visual aid that would long be remembered as to what would happen to the nation that bought Gods curse upon themselves.
Image
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:25 pmBut fig trees at that time of year weren't ready to bear figs, so what kind of illustration is this?
A very fitting one!

WHY DID JESUS EXPECT FRUIT FROM THE TREE SO EARLY IN THE SEASON?

The bible writer was well aware that it was not the season for figs but evidently the presence of fresh leaves gave the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit. Therein lies the object lesson namely that of false appearances. The nation of Israel gave the apearance they would eventually produce works of faith but in fact, on closer examination proved spiritually sterile.


Note the observation of bible commentator Frederick Fyvie Bruce
"When the fig leaves appear about the end of March, they are accompanied by a crop of small knobs, called taqsh by the Arabs, a sort of fore-runner of the real figs. These taqsh are eaten by peasants and others when hungry. They drop off before the real fig is formed. But if the leaves appear unaccompanied by taqsh, there will be no figs that year. So it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree to assuage His hunger for the time being, that the absence of the taqsh meant that there would be no figs when the time of figs came. For all its fair foliage, it was a fruitless and a hopeless tree." - Are The New Testament Documents Reliable? , pp. 73-74
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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:26 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:45 pm
WHY DID JESUS CURSE THE FIG TREE?

Jesus cursed the fig tree to illustrate what would happen to the nation of Israel that failed to produce faith in him as their promised Messiah, despite 3 and a half years of evidence. He provided a miraculous visual aid that would long be remembered as to what would happen to the nation that bought Gods curse upon themselves.
Image
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:25 pmBut fig trees at that time of year weren't ready to bear figs, so what kind of illustration is this?
A very fitting one!

WHY DID JESUS EXPECT FRUIT FROM THE TREE SO EARLY IN THE SEASON?

The bible writer was well aware that it was not the season for figs but evidently the presence of fresh leaves gave the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit. Therein lies the object lesson namely that of false appearances. The nation of Israel gave the apearance they would eventually produce works of faith but in fact, on closer examination proved spiritually sterile.
Not a thing about "evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves" in any of the 64 Bibles I checked, or any mention that such leaves gave "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit." Not even your own Bible.

Gotta say, ya can't be making up things like this and retain your crediability, JW.

Note the observation of bible commentator Frederick Fyvie Bruce
"When the fig leaves appear about the end of March, they are accompanied by a crop of small knobs, called taqsh by the Arabs, a sort of fore-runner of the real figs. These taqsh are eaten by peasants and others when hungry. They drop off before the real fig is formed. But if the leaves appear unaccompanied by taqsh, there will be no figs that year. So it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree to assuage His hunger for the time being, that the absence of the taqsh meant that there would be no figs when the time of figs came. For all its fair foliage, it was a fruitless and a hopeless tree." - Are The New Testament Documents Reliable? , pp. 73-74
No mention at all in any of the Bibles I checked that "it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree."

Boy, you Christians will make up anything, no matter how ludicrous. Even to the point of looking into Jesus's mind and knowing that "it was evident" to him.

Doesn't fiction like this embarrass you at all?

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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm
Not a thing about "evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves" in any of the 64 Bibles I checked, or any mention that such leaves gave "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit."
MARK 11: 12

he caught sight of a fig tree that had leaves, and he went to see whether he could find something on it. But on coming to it, he found nothing but leaves
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm No mention at all in any of the Bibles I checked that "it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree."


Here is were a basic knowledge of botany, local culture and critical thinking skills come into play. All things some of us learn as children.

http://skillstocriticalthinking.com/pra ... -implicit/
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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:24 am
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm
Not a thing about "evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves" in any of the 64 Bibles I checked, or any mention that such leaves gave "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit."
MARK 11: 12

he caught sight of a fig tree that had leaves, and he went to see whether he could find something on it. But on coming to it, he found nothing but leaves
Please note the two apostrophes above, which I've now bolded in red to highlight the word "fresh" to draw your attention to the point that no Bible says they're "fresh" leaves. Something that could "evidently" have functioned to give "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit." Plus your reply here does not excuse your wild speculation that "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit." Something no Bible says or speculates about. The Bible is filled with enough fiction without having to add to it.

As I said, "Not a thing about 'evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves' in any of the 64 Bibles I checked, or any mention that such leaves gave 'the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit.' Not even your own Bible."

Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm No mention at all in any of the Bibles I checked that "it was evident to our Lord, when He turned aside to see if there were any of these taqsh on the fig-tree."
Here is were a basic knowledge of botany, local culture and critical thinking skills come into play. All things we go to school to learn.
No need for "critical thinking skills" at all. A simple understanding of English, and possession of basic reasoning skills is more than adequate for recognizing that Bruce has absolutely no basis for claiming what is or is not evident in anyone's mind. It's Bruce's straining to save stories like the fig tree here with dishonest pretense that make a mockery of serious scholarship, Biblical or otherwise.


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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:05 am
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm
Not a thing about "evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves" ..."
Please note the two apostrophes above, which I've now bolded in red to highlight the word "fresh" to draw your attention to the point that no Bible says they're "fresh" leaves.
Fig trees typically grow new leaves in the spring, which signals the end of the dormant winter period and allows the tree to prepare for another cycle of producing fruit. The account has Jesus notice the tree about 10 days before the passover which as held late March /early April, so if he was triggered to see if anything edible was on the tree it would logically been because the tree signaled it was emerging from its winter dormant period by the presence of new (fresh) leaves.
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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:24 am
Miles wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:47 pm
Not a thing about "evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves" in any of the 64 Bibles I checked, or any mention that such leaves gave "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonally early, to bear fruit."
MARK 11: 12

he caught sight of a fig tree that had leaves, and he went to see whether he could find something on it. But on coming to it, he found nothing but leaves

Yup! Just as I said.

Not a thing about "evidently the presence of 'fresh' leaves,'" OR any mention that such leaves gave "the appearance that the tree might have began, unseasonably early, to bear fruit." Your Mark quote here is a bust.

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Re: Lesson of the fig tree

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

TO DEDUCE

To arrive at (a fact or a conclusion) by reasoning; draw as a logical conclusion

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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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