The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

[Diogenes]

The proposition for debate is that when one takes the tales of Genesis literally, one becomes intellectually disabled, at least temporarily. Taking Genesis literally requires one to reject biology (which includes evolution) and other sciences in favor of 'magic.' Geology and radiometric dating have to be rejected since the Earth formed only about 6000 years ago, during the same week the Earth was made (in a single day).

Much of the debate in the topic of Science and Religion consists of theists who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis rejecting basic science. Most of the resulting debates are not worth engaging in.

[brunumb]

The insulting way you describe believers displays a lack of wisdom and integrity. Such a delusional position does not come easy or naturally.

It's not me describing this world as a sinful cesspool of monsters. That's all part of your fantasy. I have a far higher opinion of the world we live in and its people and I am thankful that my mind has not been corrupted by religious poison.

[Inquirer]

The insulting way you describe believers displays a lack of wisdom and integrity. Such a delusional position does not come easy or naturally.

It's not me describing this world as a sinful cesspool of monsters. That's all part of your fantasy. I have a far higher opinion of the world we live in and its people and I am thankful that my mind has not been corrupted by religious poison.

What's that about cesspool?



This the world you don't live in.

[dad1]

The insulting way you describe believers displays a lack of wisdom and integrity. Such a delusional position does not come easy or naturally.

It's not me describing this world as a sinful cesspool of monsters. That's all part of your fantasy. I have a far higher opinion of the world we live in and its people and I am thankful that my mind has not been corrupted by religious poison.

Hate and murder and sin and etc are bad. Very bad. Jesus came to fix it, though some might prefer death and hell.
The talk in some places again these days is about nuclear war. Is that really a badge of honor for science or the world?

[dad1]

The insulting way you describe believers displays a lack of wisdom and integrity. Such a delusional position does not come easy or naturally.

It's not me describing this world as a sinful cesspool of monsters. That's all part of your fantasy. I have a far higher opinion of the world we live in and its people and I am thankful that my mind has not been corrupted by religious poison.

What's that about cesspool?



This the world you don't live in.

There are many manifestations of greed and sin and lack of love. I think most sane people would realize that the world is not nirvana.

[Jose Fly]

I listed many scientists who believe that the earth is young.

So? Have they translated that young-earth belief into any actual contributions to our scientific understanding of the world around us?

You are not even talking about anything that is observable. Unless you are saying you can travel back in time millions of years.

Again I have to ask....are you saying that unobserved events are outside the ability of science to investigate?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #0]

So? Have they translated that young-earth belief into any actual contributions to our scientific understanding of the world around us?

Great Question I am so glad you asked that.

1. Developmental biologist Willem J. Ouweneel, a Dutch creationist and CRSQ contributor, published a classic and widely cited paper on developmental anomalies in fruit flies (‘Developmental genetics of homoeosis”, Advances in Genetics, 16:179–248, 1976).
2. Herpetologist Wayne Frair, a frequent CRSQ contributor, publishes his work on turtle systematics and serology in such journals as Journal of Herpetology, Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology, Science, and Herpetologica.
3. In 1983, the German creationist and microbiologist Siegfried Scherer published a critique of evolutionary theories of the origin of photosynthesis entitled “Basic Functional States in the Evolution of Light-driven Cyclic Electron Transport”, Journal of Theoretical Biology 104: 289–299, 1983,
4. Enzymic Editing Mechanisms and the Origin of Biological Information Transfer”, by the creationist biochemist Grant Lambert (Journal of Theoretical Biology, 107:387–403, 1984)? Lambert argues that without editing enzymes, primitive DNA replication, transcription, and translation would have been swamped by extremely high error rates. But the editing enzymes are themselves produced by DNA.
It’s a brilliant argument for design. Lambert understandably counts on some subtlety and insight from his readers, however. Lambert doesn’t “explicitly” wave his creationist banner, leaving the dilemma as “an unresolved problem in theoretical biology” (p.401).
5. Russel Humphrey's paper or a few of his papers.

Inertial confinement fusion with light ion beams”, (Multiple-author) International Atomic Energy Agency, 13th International Conference on Plasma Physics and Controlled Nuclear Fusion Research, Washington D.C., 1–6 October 1990.

“Progress toward a superconducting opening switch”, (Principal author), Proceedings of 6th IEEE Pulsed Power Conference (Arlington, VA June 29 – July 1, 1987) pp. 279–282.

“Rimfire: a six megavolt laser-triggered gas-filled switch for PBFA II”, (Principal author), Proceedings of 5th IEEE Pulsed Power Conference (Arlington, VA June 10–12, 1985) pp. 262–2265.

“Uranium logging with prompt fission neutrons”, (Principal author) International Journal of Applied Radiation and Isotopes, 34(1):261–268, 1983.

“The 1/gamma velocity dependence of nucleon-nucleus optical potentials”, (Only author) Nuclear Physics, A182:580–592, 1972.
5.

Young Earth Creationists have also made predictions that were later proven correct.

PREDICTION 2: Beneath major mountains are large volumes of pooled saltwater. (Recent discoveries support this prediction, first published in 1980. Supercritical saltwater appears to be below the Tibetan Plateau, which is bounded on the south by the largest mountain range on Earth.)83

PREDICTION 5: The crystalline rock under Gibraltar, the Bosporus and Dardanelles, and the Golden Gate Bridge will be found to be eroded into V-shaped notches. (This prediction, first published in 1995, was confirmed for the Bosporus and Dardanelles in 1998103 and for Gibraltar in 2009104 and 2018.105)

PREDICTION 9: By 2020, satellites in low-Earth orbits will predict the locations of major earthquakes several days before the quakes. The satellites will measure electrical changes in the ionosphere that are produced by piezoelectric voltages building up in stressed rock around the focus of the coming earthquake. If the focus is above the crossover depth (220 miles below Earth’s surface), upward escaping magma may also produce detectable heat around the epicenter days before the quake. [See "What Causes Earthquakes, and Can They Be Predicted?" on page173.]

https://eos.org/articles/searching-for- ... ionosphere Not quite there but closer.

PREDICTION 10: Fragments of a 60-mile-thick granite layer (a hydroplate) will be found a few miles under the Pacific floor and inside the Ring of Fire.

Not prove but this is interesting. https://news.mit.edu/2017/ancient-earth ... slabs-0822

PREDICTION 28: Comet ice that has never melted will contain dissolved CO2.

Proven: https://phys.org/news/2010-11-primordia ... -jets.html

PREDICTION 29: Soil in “erosion” channels on Mars will contain traces of earthlike soluble compounds, such as salt, from Earth’s preflood subterranean chambers. Soil far from “erosion” channels will not. (This prediction was first published in April 2001. Salt was first discovered on Mars in March 2004.93 )

PREDICTION 38: Asteroids are rock piles, often with internal ice acting as a weak glue.9 Large rocks that began the capture process are near the centers of asteroids and comets.

Four years after publishing this prediction in 2001 (In the Beginning, 7th edition, page 220), measurements of the largest asteroid, Ceres, found that it does indeed have a dense, rocky core and a mantle primarily of water-ice.10

On 23 January 2014, it was announced that two jets of water vapor were discovered escaping from Ceres at a combined rate of 13 pounds per second.

PREDICTION 39: Most of the rocks (pebble-size and larger) comprising asteroids and comets will be found to be rounded to some degree. (This rounding occurred as the rocks tumbled and were eroded in the powerful fountains of the great deep, just as rocks are tumbled and rounded in fast-flowing streams.)

The European Space Administration announced on 18 December 2014 that huge, rounded boulders—1 to 3 meters in diameter—are stacked “layer upon layer” “all over” Comet 67P. [See Figure 8 on page 358.] They jokingly call them dinosaur eggs, and believe they could be the basic building blocks that clumped together to form” comets.11

PREDICTION 43: A deep, penetrating impact on a large asteroid, such as Ceres, will release vast volumes of water vapor. (This prediction has now been confirmed.9 See Figure 12.)

[Jose Fly]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #0]

So? Have they translated that young-earth belief into any actual contributions to our scientific understanding of the world around us?

Great Question I am so glad you asked that.

1. Developmental biologist Willem J. Ouweneel, a Dutch creationist and CRSQ contributor, published a classic and widely cited paper on developmental anomalies in fruit flies (‘Developmental genetics of homoeosis”, Advances in Genetics, 16:179–248, 1976).

Um....what did that have to do with young-earth creationism? Here's a summary from the publisher....

"This chapter reviews both the genetic properties and the developmental features of homoeotic mutations, and shows why they are rightly considered to be among the most instructive classes of mutations for the genetic study of imaginal disc development. Attention has been given to the various hypotheses that have been proposed to explain homoeotic phenomena, and emphasis has put on these phenomena by the framing of new and interesting theories of genetic regulation and pattern formation. The chapter also discusses the types of homoeotic transformation and the types of homoeotic mutation. The phenomenon of homoeosis is widespread among arthropods and even among many other animals. Genetic mosaics have proved to be a useful tool in the study of cell affinity and cell autonomy in homoerotic structures, of the developmental behavior of small homoeotic patches in normal organs, and of the morphogenesis of homoeotic organs. This method, as well as the study of the phenocritical, the phenocopy-sensitive, and the temperature-sensitive periods, also throw light on the time of homoeotic determination."

2. Herpetologist Wayne Frair, a frequent CRSQ contributor, publishes his work on turtle systematics and serology in such journals as Journal of Herpetology, Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology, Science, and Herpetologica.

And how much of it is based on young-earth creationism?

In fact.....

3. In 1983, the German creationist and microbiologist Siegfried Scherer published a critique of evolutionary theories of the origin of photosynthesis entitled “Basic Functional States in the Evolution of Light-driven Cyclic Electron Transport”, Journal of Theoretical Biology 104: 289–299, 1983,
4. Enzymic Editing Mechanisms and the Origin of Biological Information Transfer”, by the creationist biochemist Grant Lambert (Journal of Theoretical Biology, 107:387–403, 1984)? Lambert argues that without editing enzymes, primitive DNA replication, transcription, and translation would have been swamped by extremely high error rates. But the editing enzymes are themselves produced by DNA.
It’s a brilliant argument for design. Lambert understandably counts on some subtlety and insight from his readers, however. Lambert doesn’t “explicitly” wave his creationist banner, leaving the dilemma as “an unresolved problem in theoretical biology” (p.401).
5. Russel Humphrey's paper or a few of his papers.

Inertial confinement fusion with light ion beams”, (Multiple-author) International Atomic Energy Agency, 13th International Conference on Plasma Physics and Controlled Nuclear Fusion Research, Washington D.C., 1–6 October 1990.

“Progress toward a superconducting opening switch”, (Principal author), Proceedings of 6th IEEE Pulsed Power Conference (Arlington, VA June 29 – July 1, 1987) pp. 279–282.

“Rimfire: a six megavolt laser-triggered gas-filled switch for PBFA II”, (Principal author), Proceedings of 5th IEEE Pulsed Power Conference (Arlington, VA June 10–12, 1985) pp. 262–2265.

“Uranium logging with prompt fission neutrons”, (Principal author) International Journal of Applied Radiation and Isotopes, 34(1):261–268, 1983.

“The 1/gamma velocity dependence of nucleon-nucleus optical potentials”, (Only author) Nuclear Physics, A182:580–592, 1972.
5.

....you've obviously missed the point. I didn't ask about contributions to our scientific understanding from young-earth creationists, I asked about contributions from young-earth creationism.

Do you understand the difference?

Young Earth Creationists have also made predictions that were later proven correct.

PREDICTION 2: Beneath major mountains are large volumes of pooled saltwater. (Recent discoveries support this prediction, first published in 1980. Supercritical saltwater appears to be below the Tibetan Plateau, which is bounded on the south by the largest mountain range on Earth.)83

PREDICTION 5: The crystalline rock under Gibraltar, the Bosporus and Dardanelles, and the Golden Gate Bridge will be found to be eroded into V-shaped notches. (This prediction, first published in 1995, was confirmed for the Bosporus and Dardanelles in 1998103 and for Gibraltar in 2009104 and 2018.105)

PREDICTION 9: By 2020, satellites in low-Earth orbits will predict the locations of major earthquakes several days before the quakes. The satellites will measure electrical changes in the ionosphere that are produced by piezoelectric voltages building up in stressed rock around the focus of the coming earthquake. If the focus is above the crossover depth (220 miles below Earth’s surface), upward escaping magma may also produce detectable heat around the epicenter days before the quake. [See "What Causes Earthquakes, and Can They Be Predicted?" on page173.]

https://eos.org/articles/searching-for- ... ionosphere Not quite there but closer.

PREDICTION 10: Fragments of a 60-mile-thick granite layer (a hydroplate) will be found a few miles under the Pacific floor and inside the Ring of Fire.

Not prove but this is interesting. https://news.mit.edu/2017/ancient-earth ... slabs-0822

PREDICTION 28: Comet ice that has never melted will contain dissolved CO2.

Proven: https://phys.org/news/2010-11-primordia ... -jets.html

PREDICTION 29: Soil in “erosion” channels on Mars will contain traces of earthlike soluble compounds, such as salt, from Earth’s preflood subterranean chambers. Soil far from “erosion” channels will not. (This prediction was first published in April 2001. Salt was first discovered on Mars in March 2004.93 )

PREDICTION 38: Asteroids are rock piles, often with internal ice acting as a weak glue.9 Large rocks that began the capture process are near the centers of asteroids and comets.

Four years after publishing this prediction in 2001 (In the Beginning, 7th edition, page 220), measurements of the largest asteroid, Ceres, found that it does indeed have a dense, rocky core and a mantle primarily of water-ice.10

On 23 January 2014, it was announced that two jets of water vapor were discovered escaping from Ceres at a combined rate of 13 pounds per second.

PREDICTION 39: Most of the rocks (pebble-size and larger) comprising asteroids and comets will be found to be rounded to some degree. (This rounding occurred as the rocks tumbled and were eroded in the powerful fountains of the great deep, just as rocks are tumbled and rounded in fast-flowing streams.)

The European Space Administration announced on 18 December 2014 that huge, rounded boulders—1 to 3 meters in diameter—are stacked “layer upon layer” “all over” Comet 67P. [See Figure 8 on page 358.] They jokingly call them dinosaur eggs, and believe they could be the basic building blocks that clumped together to form” comets.11

PREDICTION 43: A deep, penetrating impact on a large asteroid, such as Ceres, will release vast volumes of water vapor. (This prediction has now been confirmed.9 See Figure 12.)

Show where young-earth creationists predicted those things before they were discovered. Anyone can come along after a discovery is made and claim, "Oh yeah, we predicted that".

[brunumb]

Hate and murder and sin and etc are bad. Very bad. Jesus came to fix it, though some might prefer death and hell.

Jesus fixed nothing. What a waste of a visit from an omnipotent deity. Oh, wait. i think he cured a few lepers. Big deal.

[brunumb]

What's that about cesspool?

Decent hard working people trying to eke out a living because God abandoned them and handed the world over to Satan. Way to go Jesus. No need to hurry back from the luxury of heaven and fix things. You just take your time. We've managed for 2000 years since you last dropped by to fix everything.

[Diagoras]

For example, if you claimed were were relatives with the flatworm, that can be flatly ridiculed and utterly rejected as nonsense.

I’ve personally traced my family history back over 300 years, and there’s no worms so far.

However…, an Acorn worm turns out to be my closest invertebrate relative. We share about 70% of our genomes, as it turns out.

Rejecting this evidence would suggest that, logically, you’d have to reject all such DNA-based evidence as ‘nonsense’. For example, evidence used in court to prove the defendant was the murderer of your mother. Or a paternity test which proves that this is your daughter, and therefore she shouldn’t be sent to live with the couple who claim to be her parents.

It’s an example of how rejecting science can have real-world consequences: not always as extreme as in my examples, but likely to cause some cognitive dissonance which can be unsettling for many.