Who is good?

For the love of the pursuit of knowledge

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Rose2020
Scholar
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:54 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Who is good?

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

Reading Matthew chapter 19. Verse 16 - 30.

Do you think you are good? If so, in what way? I talk to many people who go around perfectly contented, just knowing that because they obey the law, never actually kill anyone nor steal nor do anything much to offend, it makes them like the
angels. Wrong! They ought to examine themselves closely. Not one of us can get through a day without sinning. Maybe not even a hour. I certainly can't.

Jesus here clearly states only God is good. There are lots of people who assume that they are good and therefore will automatically be welcomed into heaven. The only apparent qualification required is to die. They assume their deceased loved ones sprouted wings up there despite never giving God a passing thought.

In this reading Jesus clearly says in verse 26 that it is humanly impossible. Only through God is it made possible. Of course later we learn that Jesus is the only way.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #2

Post by Tcg »

Rose2020 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:09 pm Not one of us can get through a day without sinning.
I can and do, every day. Sin is a concept that one has broken the laws of God. Given that there is no reason to accept the existence of God, there is no reason to assume any such laws exist. One can't break laws that don't exist.
Of course later we learn that Jesus is the only way.
Correction, later we are told Jesus is the only way. That doesn't establish the concept as being true.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
Purple Knight
Prodigy
Posts: 3465
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 1129 times
Been thanked: 729 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

Rose2020 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:09 pm-------
Do you think you are good?
No.

But I see people who are, every day.

Good is about choices, and for every person who makes a bad choice, someone makes the opposite choice - a good one.

Now, a Christian will say, but, you think evil. You thought an evil thought, and that was enough.

So I would ask, if you never had an evil thought, if you were just an animal whose instincts happened to be all good ones, what would the value of that be? That's what you're asking for, if the bar is, never have an evil thought in your head. That's a stacked deck because we can't totally control our stray thoughts and our dreams.

By the time we recognise that we ought to stop ourselves from thinking about this, we've already thought about it. Imagine punishing people based on the dreams they have. It also casts a robot as having a high moral status, as long as it is programmed to think and do good, and a person who struggles every day with wanting to do evil and never does it, as being evil anyway.

User avatar
Aetixintro
Site Supporter
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:18 am
Location: Metropolitan-Oslo, Norway, Europe
Has thanked: 431 times
Been thanked: 27 times
Contact:

Re: Who is good?

Post #4

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

It is actually to be law-abiding or thereabout to love God by all of one’s heart and soul.
What happens to God in you if you violate the laws, the 10 Commandments? Yes, faith in God, Jesus the Prophet and the Holy Ghost becomes smaller and smaller and in the end, you’ve become a candidate for Hell, no longer a believer in the Trinity. That’s science these days. It is sound psychology that you become worthless if you choose the path of evil.
No word in the corrupt Bible can change this.
I'm cool! :) - Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!

User avatar
Rose2020
Scholar
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:54 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #5

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Aetixintro in post #4]

Every soul is precious to God right up to their last breath, then all chances are gone. Jesus died for all. By choosing to reject God and do evil, it does mean hell for anyone who chooses that path.
The Bible is not corrupt, it is the true word of God.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #6

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:09 pm Reading Matthew chapter 19. Verse 16 - 30.

Do you think you are good? If so, in what way? I talk to many people who go around perfectly contented, just knowing that because they obey the law, never actually kill anyone nor steal nor do anything much to offend, it makes them like the
angels. Wrong!
Has anyone ever said their behavior makes them like angels? Maybe in the crowd you run with, but certainly not mine.

They ought to examine themselves closely.
Why? As you point out later on here, what we do or not do has no effect on getting into god's kingdom.

Not one of us can get through a day without sinning. Maybe not even a hour. I certainly can't.
So what does this foretell for our future, that on our death bed, if we're fortune enough to have one, we should say we're "sorry" and all will be forgiven?

Jesus here clearly states only God is good.
Just what kind of "good" does Jesus have in mind here, because I consider Cadbury Chocolates to be pretty darn good. Fantastic sex is also good, as is a restful nights sleep. And when Donald Trump lost the last presidential election that was really good. So, as I see it lots of things are good including innocent babies and toddlers. Me thinks Jesus is overselling god here with ridiculous hyperbole.

There are lots of people who assume that they are good and therefore will automatically be welcomed into heaven. The only apparent qualification required is to die. They assume their deceased loved ones sprouted wings up there despite never giving God a passing thought.
So what happens to such people? Do they automatically get a ticket to Hell?

In this reading Jesus clearly says in verse 26 that it is humanly impossible. Only through God is it made possible. Of course later we learn that Jesus is the only way.
If our behavior and thoughts mean bupkis why even bother trying to be a "good" person? Our fate has already been sealed.


.

User avatar
Rose2020
Scholar
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:54 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #7

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Miles in post #6]

However bad you may be, your fate is not sealed. That is the good news of Jesus. If you accept him as lord and saviour, you will be with him in heaven.
This means the worst criminal still has chance to be forgiven up to his last breath. After that it is too late.

In one of my points, I was referring to so many people who think because they are 'good' by their own standards, they are automatically eligible for heaven, despite not even acknowledging Jesus. Not true. Only through Jesus, who makes that perfectly clear in the Bible.

By the way, we are regarded by God as higher than the angels! How incredible is that? We are each God's creation, his masterpiece. He loves each of us but not our sins. He wants us to accept his son Jesus of our own free will,

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #8

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:10 am [Replying to Miles in post #6]

However bad you may be, your fate is not sealed. That is the good news of Jesus. If you accept him as lord and saviour, you will be with him in heaven.
This means the worst criminal still has chance to be forgiven up to his last breath.
And this may just be part of your fate: accepting Jesus as lord and savior. After all, being omnipotent, god already knows what you will do and how your life will turn out. And because this is the case its a life that has to be as he saw it and is therefore unchangeable. You certainly can't change what god has already seen can you? Of course not.


By the way, we are regarded by God as higher than the angels! How incredible is that?
Book, chapter, and verse please.

We are each God's creation, his masterpiece.
A "masterpiece" he regrets having made.

Genesis 6:6-7
6 the Lord regretted making human beings on the earth, and his heart was grieved.

7 So the Lord said: I will wipe out from the earth the human beings I have created, and not only the human beings, but also the animals and the crawling things and the birds of the air, for I regret that I made them.[b

So, do you think god considered us masterpieces? Of course not. Human beings are an incredible disappointment.

.

User avatar
Rose2020
Scholar
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:54 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #9

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Miles in post #8]

We have free will. We are therefore no doubt extremely disappointing at times. Yet he does love us. That is why he sent Jesus to die for us.

User avatar
Rose2020
Scholar
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:54 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Who is good?

Post #10

Post by Rose2020 »

[Replying to Miles in post #8]

We have free will. We are therefore no doubt extremely disappointing at times. Yet he does love us. That is why he sent Jesus to die for us.

Post Reply