How many religions came from America?

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9161
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 105 times

How many religions came from America?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Is it evidence for or against religions if they came from America?

For instance Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. Are there more? Scientology. Any more?

I would argue it is evidence against the religion because America has quite literally nothing the to do with the Bible. What other evidence flows from a religion coming from America?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #41

Post by oldbadger »

kjw47 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:57 am
oldbadger wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:24 am
kjw47 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:02 pm
The bible writers were guided by Holy spirit to write the letters that became the bible books. God knew every single word, because those words originated with him first-John 5:30.
Hello again...
There's a problem with the above, because if the 'bible-writers' were all governed by the Holy Spirit then all their writings would have matched with, paralleled, corroborated with..... each other.
And they don't... G-Mark is a totally differing account to G-John, etc....
And there are obvious contradictions.......

And so if you are correct about Holy Spirit guidance then some books, letters and gospels are impostors, and humans were mistaken when they included the wrong ones in the NT.
In which case, either some of the books were snuck-in to the bible by the Devil and not the Holy Spirit, or you are wrong about Holy spirit guidance.

Do you see what I mean?

What contradictions?
That's just huge, so massive that it needs it's own thread, kjw47.
There are so many contradictions in the gospels that Christians have had to choose and focus on a particular story.

Because of this, many Christians haven't learned or remembered some of the most simple things that Jesus did at very important times. They have remembered a different account altogether.
In the past I've asked many Christians if they know what Jesus did in Jerusalem and Temple on Palm Sunday, (or the next day, Monday, or the next, Tuesday.......) and they are lost, but they think it's all perfectly clear and corroborated up until then.

kjw47
Under Probation
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #42

Post by kjw47 »

oldbadger wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:26 am
kjw47 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:57 am
oldbadger wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:24 am
kjw47 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:02 pm
The bible writers were guided by Holy spirit to write the letters that became the bible books. God knew every single word, because those words originated with him first-John 5:30.
Hello again...
There's a problem with the above, because if the 'bible-writers' were all governed by the Holy Spirit then all their writings would have matched with, paralleled, corroborated with..... each other.
And they don't... G-Mark is a totally differing account to G-John, etc....
And there are obvious contradictions.......

And so if you are correct about Holy Spirit guidance then some books, letters and gospels are impostors, and humans were mistaken when they included the wrong ones in the NT.
In which case, either some of the books were snuck-in to the bible by the Devil and not the Holy Spirit, or you are wrong about Holy spirit guidance.

Do you see what I mean?

What contradictions?
That's just huge, so massive that it needs it's own thread, kjw47.
There are so many contradictions in the gospels that Christians have had to choose and focus on a particular story.

Because of this, many Christians haven't learned or remembered some of the most simple things that Jesus did at very important times. They have remembered a different account altogether.
In the past I've asked many Christians if they know what Jesus did in Jerusalem and Temple on Palm Sunday, (or the next day, Monday, or the next, Tuesday.......) and they are lost, but they think it's all perfectly clear and corroborated up until then.

No one can remember the whole bible, that is why the study of it never stops in an individuals lifetime. There are many contradictions in trinity translations, The New world translation translators, lead by holy spirit, fixed the errors.

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #43

Post by oldbadger »

kjw47 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm Oldbadger wrote:-
In the past I've asked many Christians if they know what Jesus did in Jerusalem and Temple on Palm Sunday, (or the next day, Monday, or the next, Tuesday.......) and they are lost, but they think it's all perfectly clear and corroborated up until then.

No one can remember the whole bible, that is why the study of it never stops in an individuals lifetime. There are many contradictions in trinity translations, The New world translation translators, lead by holy spirit, fixed the errors.
So you did know about contradictions after all.....
You see? Now if the gospel story was a cleanly flowing, corroborated account about what Jesus said and did, then any Christian would be able to answer a question like the above...they might just answer straight 'Jesus on Palm Sunday? In the Temple? He went sightseeing!' ...or whatever they're going to answer, but because the gospels do not fit with each other, do not support each other, because they do have contradictions then Christians won't have the whole story.

I have not got a New World translation kjw47 but it would be fascinating to read how translators, lead by holy spirit, fixed the errors. Presumably Christian readers will know what Jesus did in the Temple on Palm Sunday from it?

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #44

Post by oldbadger »

kjw47 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm No one can remember the whole bible, that is why the study of it never stops in an individuals lifetime. There are many contradictions in trinity translations, The New world translation translators, lead by holy spirit, fixed the errors.
I have just downloaded the New World translations of the gospels. Thank you for that.

But at first glance they do look to have contradictions... Anyway, they still tell about what Jesus did in the Great Temple on Palm Sunday. so maybe a JW could answer that with ease, I expect.

kjw47
Under Probation
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #45

Post by kjw47 »

oldbadger wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:47 am
kjw47 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm Oldbadger wrote:-
In the past I've asked many Christians if they know what Jesus did in Jerusalem and Temple on Palm Sunday, (or the next day, Monday, or the next, Tuesday.......) and they are lost, but they think it's all perfectly clear and corroborated up until then.

No one can remember the whole bible, that is why the study of it never stops in an individuals lifetime. There are many contradictions in trinity translations, The New world translation translators, lead by holy spirit, fixed the errors.
So you did know about contradictions after all.....
You see? Now if the gospel story was a cleanly flowing, corroborated account about what Jesus said and did, then any Christian would be able to answer a question like the above...they might just answer straight 'Jesus on Palm Sunday? In the Temple? He went sightseeing!' ...or whatever they're going to answer, but because the gospels do not fit with each other, do not support each other, because they do have contradictions then Christians won't have the whole story.

I have not got a New World translation kjw47 but it would be fascinating to read how translators, lead by holy spirit, fixed the errors. Presumably Christian readers will know what Jesus did in the Temple on Palm Sunday from it?


There isnt much importance towards eternal life knowing that minor detail. Every trinity translation on earth is altered just from the removal of Gods name. Every translation on earth done without the holy spirits guidance has used Catholicism translating. They brought many error teachings in at the councils they held centuries ago, and translated subtle errors in to fit those false teachings. No protestant ever fixed it. Because information was not that readily avaialible back in the 1300,s when they started translating.
In 1822 a Greek Scholar-A.Kneeland translated the NT from The Greek Lexicons( catholicism translating)--He compared the Greek and English side by side to prove to the world-a god was correct in the last line at John 1:1--Rejected by all trinity clergys, because that fact exposed them as false religions. 19 other translations had a god, 3 had was divine-all rejected for the same reason.

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #46

Post by oldbadger »

kjw47 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:58 pm
There isnt much importance towards eternal life knowing that minor detail.
Right, so here's a job for some keen Christian...... to research through the gospels, highlighting in bold only those verses which have 'importance towards eternal life' so that seekers, students and others can just turn to the ET verses, the Eternal Life verses.
So this might be why Historical Jesus students, many who are atheists, know more about the details of the gospels than most Christians....even you?
OK..... fair enough.
Every trinity translation on earth is altered just from the removal of Gods name. Every translation on earth done without the holy spirits guidance has used Catholicism translating. They brought many error teachings in at the councils they held centuries ago, and translated subtle errors in to fit those false teachings. No protestant ever fixed it. Because information was not that readily avaialible back in the 1300,s when they started translating.
Yeah, it would have been dangerous to try and clarify the bible back then... real fire and horrid death was the fate of those folks, I reckon.
In 1822 a Greek Scholar-A.Kneeland translated the NT from The Greek Lexicons( catholicism translating)--He compared the Greek and English side by side to prove to the world-a god was correct in the last line at John 1:1--Rejected by all trinity clergys, because that fact exposed them as false religions. 19 other translations had a god, 3 had was divine-all rejected for the same reason.
John? The authors of John obviously thought that the short campaign (mission) led by Jesus wasn't long enough, so stretched it out enormously..... so many verses which show total ignorance about the real story. So many contradictions.

But the most outrageous and unjust part of G-John is how the Christian authors turned the real adversaries of Jesus (the priesthood) in to the Jews! It says that it was the Jews, sneaking about, conspiring, planning and hoping for the downfall of Jesus.... G-John is a total outrage and lie which (mostly) fuelled anti-Semitism for two millennia. No Godly guidance there, I'm afraid to propose.

And because Christians focus so closely upon G-John they have never searched for what truth there might be within the gospel accounts, and that is why no Christian that I have ever asked, ever, is able to tell me what Jesus did in Jerusalem and Temple on Palm Sunday, nor Monday, nor Tuesday........ of that last seriously important week for Christianity.

kjw47
Under Probation
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #47

Post by kjw47 »

oldbadger wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:34 am
kjw47 wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:58 pm
There isnt much importance towards eternal life knowing that minor detail.
Right, so here's a job for some keen Christian...... to research through the gospels, highlighting in bold only those verses which have 'importance towards eternal life' so that seekers, students and others can just turn to the ET verses, the Eternal Life verses.
So this might be why Historical Jesus students, many who are atheists, know more about the details of the gospels than most Christians....even you?
OK..... fair enough.
Every trinity translation on earth is altered just from the removal of Gods name. Every translation on earth done without the holy spirits guidance has used Catholicism translating. They brought many error teachings in at the councils they held centuries ago, and translated subtle errors in to fit those false teachings. No protestant ever fixed it. Because information was not that readily avaialible back in the 1300,s when they started translating.
Yeah, it would have been dangerous to try and clarify the bible back then... real fire and horrid death was the fate of those folks, I reckon.
In 1822 a Greek Scholar-A.Kneeland translated the NT from The Greek Lexicons( catholicism translating)--He compared the Greek and English side by side to prove to the world-a god was correct in the last line at John 1:1--Rejected by all trinity clergys, because that fact exposed them as false religions. 19 other translations had a god, 3 had was divine-all rejected for the same reason.
John? The authors of John obviously thought that the short campaign (mission) led by Jesus wasn't long enough, so stretched it out enormously..... so many verses which show total ignorance about the real story. So many contradictions.

But the most outrageous and unjust part of G-John is how the Christian authors turned the real adversaries of Jesus (the priesthood) in to the Jews! It says that it was the Jews, sneaking about, conspiring, planning and hoping for the downfall of Jesus.... G-John is a total outrage and lie which (mostly) fuelled anti-Semitism for two millennia. No Godly guidance there, I'm afraid to propose.

And because Christians focus so closely upon G-John they have never searched for what truth there might be within the gospel accounts, and that is why no Christian that I have ever asked, ever, is able to tell me what Jesus did in Jerusalem and Temple on Palm Sunday, nor Monday, nor Tuesday........ of that last seriously important week for Christianity.


There are only contradictions in trinity translations.
Prior to the 1300,s if one tried to translate was burned alive at the stake along with their translating. No one was allowed to read the bible except upper clergy. It was kept in latin all those years. Few could read that language. Learning and applying Gods will is what one must do.

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1808
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #48

Post by oldbadger »

kjw47 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:42 pm
There are only contradictions in trinity translations.
....and those gospels of yours which I downloaded.

Prior to the 1300,s if one tried to translate was burned alive at the stake along with their translating. No one was allowed to read the bible except upper clergy. It was kept in latin all those years. Few could read that language. Learning and applying Gods will is what one must do.
So you didn't read my post, which told of fire and horrid death, back then.

User avatar
Difflugia
Prodigy
Posts: 3017
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 3247 times
Been thanked: 1997 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #49

Post by Difflugia »

oldbadger wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:47 amI have not got a New World translation kjw47
You can download both editions (1984 and 2013) of the New World Translation from the official site in epub and PDF.

Judas still does contradictory things with his money before dying in contradictory ways in that one, so the Holy Spirit didn't clear up everything. The Holy Spirit did add scare quotes to Samuel's name in 1 Samuel 28 to resolve the contradiction with "the dead know nothing," though.

Image
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

kjw47
Under Probation
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: How many religions came from America?

Post #50

Post by kjw47 »

oldbadger wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:50 am
kjw47 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:42 pm
There are only contradictions in trinity translations.
....and those gospels of yours which I downloaded.

Prior to the 1300,s if one tried to translate was burned alive at the stake along with their translating. No one was allowed to read the bible except upper clergy. It was kept in latin all those years. Few could read that language. Learning and applying Gods will is what one must do.
So you didn't read my post, which told of fire and horrid death, back then.

Firs and horrid death from who and to who?

Post Reply