Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[POI]

Contrary to your belief, you attended false religion, Jesus has 0 to do with them, So you were taught darkness.

More blank assertions. Kool. You have absolutely NO idea from where I come from, and where I've been, but thank-you-all-the-same for the continued ad hominem attacks

No one can show you God, but God.

So God does NOT answer intercessory prayers, even from a true believer like yourself?

God treats one as a Friend if they show him love and respect.

I was a Christian for 30+ years, but realized I was likely talking to myself. If He knows I'm trying to reach Him, why does He continue to play hide-and-go-seek? That does not sound very loving and respectful, does it?

Those saying his word is false is doing the opposite, so no matter who prayed for you it wouldnt be Gods will to show you. God gave you everything, you show him first.

Again, you can state I'm doing it ALL wrong. But you think you are doing it all right. So I ask you again, DOES GOD EVER ANSWER INTERCESSORY PRAYERS, FROM TRUE BELIEVERS, OR NOT? If NOT, then your Bible is wrong. If He does, then I'll be awaiting your prayer, on my behalf.

This is your shinning moment to bring a lost soul back to Christ.

You think you were a christian, were told were a christian, but according to the teachings of Jesus you werent. How many days of your christianity did you listen to Jesus and do this first daily? Matt 6:33--Therefore keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his(YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--How many days did your heart instruct your mind to put those 2 things over-Job, Family, Friends, entertainment? I already know the answer, Those in the light do it first daily. 24/7-365.

We just went over many exchanges, for which you happily agreed.

1) God causes some, and not others, to become inexorably drawn to Him
2) God changes hearts

You acknowledge that God intervenes in some people's will. So I ask for the 50th time, why not all?

Your response above is meaningless, if you also believe God yearns for relationships as well as being reported to sometimes intervene. I'm here, ASKING for an intervention. You claimed only God can show me. Okay, but doesn't God answer intercessory prayers? Ask Him to show me. And viola, instance conversion. You would then have one of the best conversion stories ever to tell your congregation.

But pardon me if I instead hang back, and read more excuses, as to why this is not going to happen.....

[kjw47]

Contrary to your belief, you attended false religion, Jesus has 0 to do with them, So you were taught darkness.

More blank assertions. Kool. You have absolutely NO idea from where I come from, and where I've been, but thank-you-all-the-same for the continued ad hominem attacks

No one can show you God, but God.

So God does NOT answer intercessory prayers, even from a true believer like yourself?

God treats one as a Friend if they show him love and respect.

I was a Christian for 30+ years, but realized I was likely talking to myself. If He knows I'm trying to reach Him, why does He continue to play hide-and-go-seek? That does not sound very loving and respectful, does it?

Those saying his word is false is doing the opposite, so no matter who prayed for you it wouldnt be Gods will to show you. God gave you everything, you show him first.

Again, you can state I'm doing it ALL wrong. But you think you are doing it all right. So I ask you again, DOES GOD EVER ANSWER INTERCESSORY PRAYERS, FROM TRUE BELIEVERS, OR NOT? If NOT, then your Bible is wrong. If He does, then I'll be awaiting your prayer, on my behalf.

This is your shinning moment to bring a lost soul back to Christ.

You think you were a christian, were told were a christian, but according to the teachings of Jesus you werent. How many days of your christianity did you listen to Jesus and do this first daily? Matt 6:33--Therefore keep on seeking- FIRST- the kingdom and his(YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)--How many days did your heart instruct your mind to put those 2 things over-Job, Family, Friends, entertainment? I already know the answer, Those in the light do it first daily. 24/7-365.

We just went over many exchanges, for which you happily agreed.

1) God causes some, and not others, to become inexorably drawn to Him
2) God changes hearts

You acknowledge that God intervenes in some people's will. So I ask for the 50th time, why not all?

Your response above is meaningless, if you also believe God yearns for relationships as well as being reported to sometimes intervene. I'm here, ASKING for an intervention. You claimed only God can show me. Okay, but doesn't God answer intercessory prayers? Ask Him to show me. And viola, instance conversion. You would then have one of the best conversion stories ever to tell your congregation.

But pardon me if I instead hang back, and read more excuses, as to why this is not going to happen.....

In the bible God said --The wicked would require proof. So no matter who prayed for that one it wouldn't work. If the wonderful creation of everything with variety for our benefit isnt proof, you probably will never see. Its you who need to pray to the Father through Jesus name. God intervenes if its a benefit for his true followers. Otherwise he lets men do what they will, But the true followers sometimes take the brunt of that wicked will. They murdered Jesus, apostles, they started killing the followers by throwing them to hungry wild animals in the Colosseum as a public entertainment. Then Herod would hang them on stakes along the roadway to his city and light them on fire to be a light for the roadway. God didn't intervene. He may have stopped the pain caused by those things, no one can tell. But in some instances he did intervene, like parting the red sea and blocking Pharoahs path until they crossed safely. And other times with Israel. At Armageddon God will protect his.

[JoeyKnothead]

Many think they have satan beat-99.9% mislead in Noahs day--Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day- Luke 17:26--at minimum 99% are in darkness.

Many think there's a Satan to be beat.

Others quit believing fairy tales before their teens.

The liar lies, and the preacher preaches.

[brunumb]

In the bible God said --The wicked would require proof. So no matter who prayed for that one it wouldn't work.

So your preaching is a total waste of time unless you are lucky enough to hit on a gullible individual susceptible to indoctrination. No God necessary.

[POI]

In the bible God said --The wicked would require proof. So no matter who prayed for that one it wouldn't work. If the wonderful creation of everything with variety for our benefit isnt proof, you probably will never see.

It never fails... You are referencing Romans 1:20. For which I have already responded. Please note the cut/paste from the following topic (viewtopic.php?t=39684)

Many Christians need to really think about what 'creation' actually means? Meaning, I can 'create' stuff. Running water can 'create' stuff. Erosion can 'create' stuff. Pressure and time can 'create' stuff. Etc....

If I 'create' something, in reality, I'm instead repurposing or rearranging material. But it is still intentional. A 'mind' purposed it's reconfiguration.

If nature 'creates' something, like the Grand Canyon, Mount Everest, Yosemite, it was likely not reconfigured from a 'mind'. It's not intentional.

For debate:

1. Can you Christians distinguish the difference between both intentional and unintentional "creation" -- (in every case)?

Example 1: A straight row of almond trees was designed by a 'mindful' tree farmer. A random array of almond trees, in the middle of an uninhabited area, was likely not placed there 'mindfully' or intentionally.

Example 2: 99.9999% of the 'universe', in which we know about, is unihabitable for humans -- god's favorite 'creation'.

Example 3: The majority of the earth itself is also unihabitable for humans -- god's favorite 'creation'.

Example 4: An intentional mind 'created' humans, where an airway and a food pathway share the same plumbing, where a sewage system and sex organs share the same pathway, and also where a urine pathway routes directly through the prostate?

2. If you can distinguish the difference between intentional and unintentional "creation", is the author of Romans 1:20 still correct? If yes, why yes?

3. If 'science' is correct, and matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but instead only repurposed; this means there exists no reason to invent or assert a god in charge of 'creation', right?

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Its you who need to pray to the Father through Jesus name. God intervenes if its a benefit for his true followers.

Again, since YOU are a true follower, I'm asking for your intercessory prayer request. And then, as you agreed:

1) God causes one to become inexorably drawn to Him
2) God changes hearts
3) God is said to intervene

Please pray for the one true god to intervene. If He does not intervene:

A) you did not pray for me
B) He ignored you
C) no god exists

They murdered Jesus

Um, this was already god's plan

they started killing the followers by throwing them to hungry wild animals in the Colosseum as a public entertainment. Then Herod would hang them on stakes along the roadway to his city and light them on fire to be a light for the roadway. God didn't intervene. He may have stopped the pain caused by those things, no one can tell.

All of this was god's plan apparently. Without all this death, you Christians would loose the martyrdom argument.

But in some instances he did intervene, like parting the red sea and blocking Pharoahs path until they crossed safely. And other times with Israel. At Armageddon God will protect his.

Right, He intervenes when he wants to. Which means, prayer is likely pointless. His will is already set. Which is another contradiction, via what the Bible states about prayer.

[TRANSPONDER]

In the bible God said --The wicked would require proof. So no matter who prayed for that one it wouldn't work.

So your preaching is a total waste of time unless you are lucky enough to hit on a gullible individual susceptible to indoctrination. No God necessary.

Yeah....we end up here time and again. uncannily just like the argument about prayer where I just found myself saying the same thing - the Believers can not come up with any decent evidence for God any more than they can for prayer working, but what they can come up with is a shackload of excuses as to why they shouldn't be expected to produce any evidence while the Unbelievers, apparently, have to come up with proof that will even convince the determined denialist that atrocities do happen everywhere, today.

[Purple Knight]

I don't know whether we can do better, either. I only know that I see a way forward, I see the way the evidence looks and I see potential. I think we have to try, even if we fail. I think it starts here.

We do, but if society collapses and the survivors retreat into incredibly strict religious communities, it'll be not only understandable, but the logically correct choice: Going back to thousand-years-tested beliefs when new ideas failed.

Now, I don't want to live in one of those incredibly strict religious communities. And I will bloody survive because I prep and I'm incredibly intelligent. So let's do this right for our own sakes, shall we?

[kjw47]

Many think they have satan beat-99.9% mislead in Noahs day--Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day- Luke 17:26--at minimum 99% are in darkness.

Many think there's a Satan to be beat.

Others quit believing fairy tales before their teens.

The liar lies, and the preacher preaches.

It will be terrible to find out the hard way, that you traded 70-100 years possibly( because its almost done) and gave up trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years.

[kjw47]

In the bible God said --The wicked would require proof. So no matter who prayed for that one it wouldn't work. If the wonderful creation of everything with variety for our benefit isnt proof, you probably will never see.

It never fails... You are referencing Romans 1:20. For which I have already responded. Please note the cut/paste from the following topic (viewtopic.php?t=39684)

Many Christians need to really think about what 'creation' actually means? Meaning, I can 'create' stuff. Running water can 'create' stuff. Erosion can 'create' stuff. Pressure and time can 'create' stuff. Etc....

If I 'create' something, in reality, I'm instead repurposing or rearranging material. But it is still intentional. A 'mind' purposed it's reconfiguration.

If nature 'creates' something, like the Grand Canyon, Mount Everest, Yosemite, it was likely not reconfigured from a 'mind'. It's not intentional.

For debate:

1. Can you Christians distinguish the difference between both intentional and unintentional "creation" -- (in every case)?

Example 1: A straight row of almond trees was designed by a 'mindful' tree farmer. A random array of almond trees, in the middle of an uninhabited area, was likely not placed there 'mindfully' or intentionally.

Example 2: 99.9999% of the 'universe', in which we know about, is unihabitable for humans -- god's favorite 'creation'.

Example 3: The majority of the earth itself is also unihabitable for humans -- god's favorite 'creation'.

Example 4: An intentional mind 'created' humans, where an airway and a food pathway share the same plumbing, where a sewage system and sex organs share the same pathway, and also where a urine pathway routes directly through the prostate?

2. If you can distinguish the difference between intentional and unintentional "creation", is the author of Romans 1:20 still correct? If yes, why yes?

3. If 'science' is correct, and matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but instead only repurposed; this means there exists no reason to invent or assert a god in charge of 'creation', right?

****************************************************************
****************************************************************

Its you who need to pray to the Father through Jesus name. God intervenes if its a benefit for his true followers.

Again, since YOU are a true follower, I'm asking for your intercessory prayer request. And then, as you agreed:

1) God causes one to become inexorably drawn to Him
2) God changes hearts
3) God is said to intervene

Please pray for the one true god to intervene. If He does not intervene:

A) you did not pray for me
B) He ignored you
C) no god exists

They murdered Jesus

Um, this was already god's plan

they started killing the followers by throwing them to hungry wild animals in the Colosseum as a public entertainment. Then Herod would hang them on stakes along the roadway to his city and light them on fire to be a light for the roadway. God didn't intervene. He may have stopped the pain caused by those things, no one can tell.

All of this was god's plan apparently. Without all this death, you Christians would loose the martyrdom argument.

But in some instances he did intervene, like parting the red sea and blocking Pharoahs path until they crossed safely. And other times with Israel. At Armageddon God will protect his.

Right, He intervenes when he wants to. Which means, prayer is likely pointless. His will is already set. Which is another contradiction, via what the Bible states about prayer.

And there is one reality, one is either standing for God or not. The nots will be shocked soon. This system is almost done, we are far along in revelation.

[JoeyKnothead]

Many think they have satan beat-99.9% mislead in Noahs day--Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day- Luke 17:26--at minimum 99% are in darkness.

Many think there's a Satan to be beat.

Others quit believing fairy tales before their teens.

The liar lies, and the preacher preaches.

It will be terrible to find out the hard way, that you traded 70-100 years possibly( because its almost done) and gave up trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years.

It'd be worse to believe you without you ever presenting one piece of conformable evidence.

You're just spreading threats of damnation for disbelief, and promises of eternal life for belief.

The liar lies, and the preacher preaches.