What's the Point of Prayer?

[POI]

In regards to the following verses -- Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, John 16:23....

What do they really mean? I've debated many theists, and get a whole mess of conflicting answers. It will likely be no surprise if that continues here. After some thought, here are some findings...

1. All prayer is pointless, as any "answered prayer" would merely mean, <at best>, that it already aligned with God's will. Why? Because you cannot make God change His will. But this seems to go against all the verses listed above.

2. Ignore the above! God answers all prayer with a (yes, no, or later). His answer, of course, would be "no" if you are asking God to commit a 'sin.' But if this option is the case, I guess he will always say no to the requests of restoring lost limbs, reversing cerebral palsy, and downs syndrome. Why? Because they will die with these conditions, which means they remained unfulfilled until natural death. But this seems to go against all the verses listed above, as there really exists no such caveats....?

3. Ignore choices 1. and 2.! Prayer is only meant for giving thanks, other. God is not a slot machine! But this seems to go against all the verses listed above.

I'm sure there exists a plethora of other explanations........ You get the gist....

For Debate:

What is the point of prayer? I guess we can start here, and see where this goes....

[1213]

...
What is the point of prayer?...

It depends on what is said in the prayer. If we look for example what Jesus said about how people should pray, there are:
- Let your kingdom come
Apparently the point of this is to say person wants to be part of God's kingdom and that it would be on earth.
- Let your will be done
The point of this is to say the person wants God's will to happen.
- Give us today our daily bread
The point of this is to ask that we would have food.
- Forgive us our debts as we also forgive
The point of this is to show one is sorry and asks God to forgive that the person has not done everything as he should have done.
- Bring us not into temptation
The point of this, I think, is to ask that God would help person to avoid situation where he would be tempted to do wrong things.

Pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. Let your kingdom come. Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.’
Matt. 6:9-13

[brunumb]

What is the point of prayer? I guess we can start here, and see where this goes....

Second only to worship as a useless religious practice. It may boost serotonin levels in those self-deluded individuals who believe they are communicating with God. Perhaps they believe that God will view them more favorably if they engage in prayer and they might secure better seats in heaven. Other than that, God knows all and does what he wants, so there is no point whatsoever.

[Miles]

...
What is the point of prayer?...

It depends on what is said in the prayer. If we look for example what Jesus said about how people should pray, there are:
- Let your kingdom come
Apparently the point of this is to say person wants to be part of God's kingdom and that it would be on earth.
- Let your will be done
The point of this is to say the person wants God's will to happen.
- Give us today our daily bread
The point of this is to ask that we would have food.
- Forgive us our debts as we also forgive
The point of this is to show one is sorry and asks God to forgive that the person has not done everything as he should have done.
- Bring us not into temptation
The point of this, I think, is to ask that God would help person to avoid situation where he would be tempted to do wrong things.

Pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.(a wish) Let your kingdom come. (another wish) Let your will be done, (and another wish) as in heaven, so on earth. (where these wishes should take place) Give us today our daily bread. (a request) Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. (another request) Bring us not into temptation, (another request) but deliver us from the evil one. (and another request) For yours is the kingdom, (a reminder of what is god's) the power, (another reminder) and the glory forever. (and another reminder) Amen.’
Matt. 6:9-13

So, we have:

3 wishes
1 instruction
4 requests
3 reminders

And not a single "Thank you." Interesting.

.

[TRANSPONDER]

Of course not, God doesn't owe us anything; no matter what we do, it isn't good enough, not for Him. We are all sinners because Adam scrumped an apple and every human bean since then is deserving of eternal torture, because of that bloody apple.

Ok, not every Christian sees it like that, and our pal 12 13 was making the point about what we are actually praying for when we pray the kingpin prayer (1). But another question here is why do we pray? Not so much what we ask for but whether we are really asking for anything, at least with expectation. I'm going to skip the debate (for now ) because it's been done. I'll get to the result - We do not, or Christians do not, ask for anything because they know that prayers are not answered - not like it promises in Matthew and Mark where it says in black and white that whatever the believer does ask for In Faith, that God will grant, even uprooting a tree or a mountain. Well, that doesn't happen, and the Faithful know that it doesn't and so they have to come up with the excuses that simply prove the point; God will not grant your prayer if he reckons it wouldn't be a good thing. Even with the usual 'evidence' that God answers prayer, like enabling aunt Aggie to get through her brain surgery, that fails because sometimes we (humans) pray, or at least wish, for Aunt Aggie to get well and, sadly, she doesn't. Well, it was Her Time, and now she's in a Better Place and all the usual excuses. What that amounts to is: 'Whatever you get, even if it's nothing, that is God answering'.

"Sometimes God says No". The biggie of excuses and get - out clauses of not fulfilling promises. "God knows best." So I'll skip lightly overt the immediate reaction of the faithful to my test that if by prayer they can have the bottle of water on my desk turn into wine, I will become a Christian (rather than try, they immediately make excuses as to why they shouldn't even try) I will conclude that prayer is like every other result for Christianity and its' claims; it would look just the same if there was no God there at all. And finally, after skipping over the polemical stepping -stones, like any TV episode in the Old days before three episode story arcs, we get to where we started, Given that Christians know they aren't going to get a pair of top price trainers left on the doorstep just because they asked God for them, just what are they praying for?

I don't need to say what I think, especially as the Faithful will dismiss it out of hand, simply because an atheist hath said it; instead, I will repeat the conclusion that Christians themselves came to after the long, long debate:

"It isn't for things, because maybe we shouldn't have them, or often don't deserve them, and we don't do it for God, because he really doesn't need our prayers. We do it for ourselves."

(1) I'm obliged to ride my pet hobby - horse here and point out that the Lord's prayer appears in the Sermon on the mount in Matthew but not in Luke, but it does appear to be taught, apparently for the first time, when (In Luke 11) Jesus and the disciples set out for Jerusalem. It does not appear in Mark. This is DNA clue that it is 'Q' material transported in, like all the other 'Sermon' material and put into the original gospel in different places. So much for the pivotal prayer in Christianity.

[1213]

...Christians do not, ask for anything because they know that prayers are not answered - ...

That is not true. I have asked for example wisdom to understand Bible, because of the example of Solomon and this:

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

[TRANSPONDER]

...Christians do not, ask for anything because they know that prayers are not answered - ...

That is not true. I have asked for example wisdom to understand Bible, because of the example of Solomon and this:

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

I hate to say this, but I think you should get in touch with the celestial complaints dept. and demand a refund.

[POI]

It depends on what is said in the prayer.

Does this mean we are to ignore the Verses listed in the OP (Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, John 16:23)?

If we look for example what Jesus said about how people should pray, there are:
- Let your kingdom come
Apparently the point of this is to say person wants to be part of God's kingdom and that it would be on earth.
- Let your will be done
The point of this is to say the person wants God's will to happen.

So, you are saying the point of prayer demonstrates option 1 of the OP? (i.e.): God's will renders prayer pointless?

- Give us today our daily bread
The point of this is to ask that we would have food.

Wait a minute! Can your prayer infringe upon God's will, or not? If not, as you alluded to above, then this request will only be issued if it ALREADY aligns with God's will. If you can ask God for things, for which did not already align with God's will, then where do we draw the line exactly? Again, what about the Verses I listed in the OP (Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, John 16:23)?

- Forgive us our debts as we also forgive
The point of this is to show one is sorry and asks God to forgive that the person has not done everything as he should have done.

The point of prayer is to ask God for forgiveness?

- Bring us not into temptation
The point of this, I think, is to ask that God would help person to avoid situation where he would be tempted to do wrong things.

Wait a minute! Does God intervene, or not? If not, then prayer is worthless. If He does, where do you draw the line? Does He consider all requests, which do not involve sin --> (Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, John 16:23)?

Pray like this:

This method demonstrates being messy and confusing.

[JehovahsWitness]

And not a single "Thank you." Interesting.

DOES THE BIBLE FAIL TO ENCOURAGE THANKING GOD ?

PHILIPIANS 4 : 6

... in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God

1 THESSESONIANS 5: 17, 18

Pray constantly. Give thanks for everything. This is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus

COLOSSIANS 3:17

Whatever it is that you do in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, thanking God the Father through him

[JehovahsWitness]

So, we have:

3 wishes
1 instruction
4 requests
3 reminders

So ... is there anything wrong with any of the above? Do you feel there is something inappropriate or negative in the list?



Jesus was encouraging his followers to address God as children would their father. What father would not be happy if his child shared its desires and requests with him all the while being mindful of the father's standards (instructions and reminders)?


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