Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

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Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #1

Post by POI »

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?
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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #331

Post by brunumb »

kjw47 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:17 pm It takes faith.
Excellent. I have complete faith in the fact that you are wrong.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #332

Post by POI »

kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm And there is one reality, one is either standing for God or not. The nots will be shocked soon. This system is almost done, we are far along in revelation.
Okay, you have clearly checked out. You are not here for any type of meaningful debate. You are instead here for empty threats, and fear-mongering. So I now have to ask...

When do you JW's get tired of being wrong? I mean, you guys have been moving the goal posts for decades now, preaching doom-and-gloom, which never comes to fruition... When is enough enough? How many times do you guys need to revamp your story, before you start to say to yourself --- 'hey, wait a minute, I really thought this was it?"
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #333

Post by Bust Nak »

kjw47 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:17 pm Its very sad that it will be God that shows you your error...
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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #334

Post by TRANSPONDER »

kjw47 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:29 pm
brunumb wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:53 am
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm And there is one reality, one is either standing for God or not.
Then there is the reality where there is no God at all, only peddlers of religious myths and superstition.
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm The nots will be shocked soon. This system is almost done, we are far along in revelation.
The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to have a monopoly on these prophecy based scare tactics and they have a terrible track record to boot. So, why should we listen to you?

C.T.Russell was in error by trying to date Armageddon, but on his side, in 1879 he said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. He used a prophecy in Daniel --2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem Gods kingdom would be established in heaven. 607 bce was that removal of the last king-607 bc + 2520= 1914=Revelation 6--He receives his crown= (the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven) The ride of the white horse( righteous war) was the war in heaven, satan and his angels lost and were cast out of heaven forever to the earth, coming angry, knowing his time was short--Rev 6-And peace will be taken from the earth=ww1--Millions slaughtered in hatred. The other 3 riders rode as well. Millions upon millions died all over the earth after ww1 by things mentioned of those 3 riders. He thought the ride of the white horse was Armageddon because Jesus is shown riding the white horse at Armageddon. So one must ask--Why was C.T.Russell the only man on earth who could figure that bible prophecy out, when all the other religions had centuries before him to do so? And to this day they refuse to believe its truth, but the fact that Rev 6 says-Peace will be taken from the earth proved it truth--Not a single war-a world war. And he told the world the year, 35 years prior to its occurrence.

Only the wicked have fear of armageddon coming. The bible says its good news of Gods kingdom coming to the righteous. This tells all where they stand.
I seem to recall that we already looked at this. Russell said that the end would com in 1914. Not that the end would start. That is was based on Daniel (which is demonstrably NOT prophecy nor correct as prophecy) and it at least explains where the date came from. It is evidently a coincidence, and just accidentally coincides with the start of WWI. You frankly have to rewrite what it says to make it look like it is anything but a failed prophecy. You may continue to mislead yourself about the prophecy, probably Interpreting to meaning, but it won't mislead the reasonable and rational, not once they have been given the other side. Indeed i think they will be rather annoyed that you again tried to fool them into believing that was a validated prophecy.

I don't know what use it will be to point this out, hopefully at least to frame the feelings of those who have seen your last few posts with accusation and threats, and say that nobody needs to take your latest efforts seriously. I really don't know whether you are doing this because you think it will get brownie points with God in threatening and damning doubters and questioners, or whether you really think anyone is going to fall for this doorstep handout level propaganda, which surely shouldn't fool anyone at this stage of the debate.

Just putting you in the picture so you can't say that nobody told you.

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #335

Post by kjw47 »

POI wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:32 am
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm And there is one reality, one is either standing for God or not. The nots will be shocked soon. This system is almost done, we are far along in revelation.
Okay, you have clearly checked out. You are not here for any type of meaningful debate. You are instead here for empty threats, and fear-mongering. So I now have to ask...

When do you JW's get tired of being wrong? I mean, you guys have been moving the goal posts for decades now, preaching doom-and-gloom, which never comes to fruition... When is enough enough? How many times do you guys need to revamp your story, before you start to say to yourself --- 'hey, wait a minute, I really thought this was it?"

All the signs are in place. Babylon the great falling is the next event. That locks the door to all not in. It triggers the tribulation.
C.T.Russell said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--he was correct. Using the prophecy in Daniel pointed to that year to be Rev 6--No others on earth could figure it out they had centuries before MR. Russell.

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #336

Post by kjw47 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:24 pm
kjw47 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:29 pm
brunumb wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:53 am
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm And there is one reality, one is either standing for God or not.
Then there is the reality where there is no God at all, only peddlers of religious myths and superstition.
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm The nots will be shocked soon. This system is almost done, we are far along in revelation.
The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to have a monopoly on these prophecy based scare tactics and they have a terrible track record to boot. So, why should we listen to you?

C.T.Russell was in error by trying to date Armageddon, but on his side, in 1879 he said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. He used a prophecy in Daniel --2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem Gods kingdom would be established in heaven. 607 bce was that removal of the last king-607 bc + 2520= 1914=Revelation 6--He receives his crown= (the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven) The ride of the white horse( righteous war) was the war in heaven, satan and his angels lost and were cast out of heaven forever to the earth, coming angry, knowing his time was short--Rev 6-And peace will be taken from the earth=ww1--Millions slaughtered in hatred. The other 3 riders rode as well. Millions upon millions died all over the earth after ww1 by things mentioned of those 3 riders. He thought the ride of the white horse was Armageddon because Jesus is shown riding the white horse at Armageddon. So one must ask--Why was C.T.Russell the only man on earth who could figure that bible prophecy out, when all the other religions had centuries before him to do so? And to this day they refuse to believe its truth, but the fact that Rev 6 says-Peace will be taken from the earth proved it truth--Not a single war-a world war. And he told the world the year, 35 years prior to its occurrence.

Only the wicked have fear of armageddon coming. The bible says its good news of Gods kingdom coming to the righteous. This tells all where they stand.
I seem to recall that we already looked at this. Russell said that the end would com in 1914. Not that the end would start. That is was based on Daniel (which is demonstrably NOT prophecy nor correct as prophecy) and it at least explains where the date came from. It is evidently a coincidence, and just accidentally coincides with the start of WWI. You frankly have to rewrite what it says to make it look like it is anything but a failed prophecy. You may continue to mislead yourself about the prophecy, probably Interpreting to meaning, but it won't mislead the reasonable and rational, not once they have been given the other side. Indeed i think they will be rather annoyed that you again tried to fool them into believing that was a validated prophecy.

I don't know what use it will be to point this out, hopefully at least to frame the feelings of those who have seen your last few posts with accusation and threats, and say that nobody needs to take your latest efforts seriously. I really don't know whether you are doing this because you think it will get brownie points with God in threatening and damning doubters and questioners, or whether you really think anyone is going to fall for this doorstep handout level propaganda, which surely shouldn't fool anyone at this stage of the debate.

Just putting you in the picture so you can't say that nobody told you.

He said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--He did think it to be Armageddon because of the ride of the white horse, Jesus is pictured on at Armageddon, but it was the war in heaven, Michael took that ride, but Rev 6 says he receives his crown. Only Jesus is getting the crown. Mr. Russell didnt know Michael was the one God sent to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal at that point. It was figured out after that.

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #337

Post by TRANSPONDER »

kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:57 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:24 pm
kjw47 wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:29 pm
brunumb wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:53 am
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm And there is one reality, one is either standing for God or not.
Then there is the reality where there is no God at all, only peddlers of religious myths and superstition.
kjw47 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:23 pm The nots will be shocked soon. This system is almost done, we are far along in revelation.
The Jehovah's Witnesses seem to have a monopoly on these prophecy based scare tactics and they have a terrible track record to boot. So, why should we listen to you?

C.T.Russell was in error by trying to date Armageddon, but on his side, in 1879 he said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. He used a prophecy in Daniel --2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem Gods kingdom would be established in heaven. 607 bce was that removal of the last king-607 bc + 2520= 1914=Revelation 6--He receives his crown= (the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven) The ride of the white horse( righteous war) was the war in heaven, satan and his angels lost and were cast out of heaven forever to the earth, coming angry, knowing his time was short--Rev 6-And peace will be taken from the earth=ww1--Millions slaughtered in hatred. The other 3 riders rode as well. Millions upon millions died all over the earth after ww1 by things mentioned of those 3 riders. He thought the ride of the white horse was Armageddon because Jesus is shown riding the white horse at Armageddon. So one must ask--Why was C.T.Russell the only man on earth who could figure that bible prophecy out, when all the other religions had centuries before him to do so? And to this day they refuse to believe its truth, but the fact that Rev 6 says-Peace will be taken from the earth proved it truth--Not a single war-a world war. And he told the world the year, 35 years prior to its occurrence.

Only the wicked have fear of armageddon coming. The bible says its good news of Gods kingdom coming to the righteous. This tells all where they stand.
I seem to recall that we already looked at this. Russell said that the end would com in 1914. Not that the end would start. That is was based on Daniel (which is demonstrably NOT prophecy nor correct as prophecy) and it at least explains where the date came from. It is evidently a coincidence, and just accidentally coincides with the start of WWI. You frankly have to rewrite what it says to make it look like it is anything but a failed prophecy. You may continue to mislead yourself about the prophecy, probably Interpreting to meaning, but it won't mislead the reasonable and rational, not once they have been given the other side. Indeed i think they will be rather annoyed that you again tried to fool them into believing that was a validated prophecy.

I don't know what use it will be to point this out, hopefully at least to frame the feelings of those who have seen your last few posts with accusation and threats, and say that nobody needs to take your latest efforts seriously. I really don't know whether you are doing this because you think it will get brownie points with God in threatening and damning doubters and questioners, or whether you really think anyone is going to fall for this doorstep handout level propaganda, which surely shouldn't fool anyone at this stage of the debate.

Just putting you in the picture so you can't say that nobody told you.

He said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--He did think it to be Armageddon because of the ride of the white horse, Jesus is pictured on at Armageddon, but it was the war in heaven, Michael took that ride, but Rev 6 says he receives his crown. Only Jesus is getting the crown. Mr. Russell didnt know Michael was the one God sent to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal at that point. It was figured out after that.
He said this: "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226" This wrong because it was the start of the war, not the end of anything but the peace. Which is what you claim it says but is not what it says.

So have you been misled, or are you trying to mislead us?

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #338

Post by POI »

kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm All the signs are in place.
:approve: :wish:
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm Babylon the great falling is the next event. That locks the door to all not in. It triggers the tribulation.
Interesting. Can you give us a date, time, location, people involved, or any other specifics? Or, is it just another blanket open-ended 'prediction'? I mean, should I quit my job and spend all my money now, or is it going to happen 10 years from now? How much time, specifically, do I have left before this 'door' is closed?
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm C.T.Russell said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--he was correct. Using the prophecy in Daniel pointed to that year to be Rev 6--No others on earth could figure it out they had centuries before MR. Russell.
I find it interesting we still have millions of "Watchtower" followers today? The JW organization sure seems to like to double, triple, and even quadruple down. The entire organization/doctrine is basically predicated upon one dead dude, who got stuff wrong. If you do not believe me, just google 'failed watchtower predictions'.

The solution, you ask? Reinterpret them :) Indoctrination, by way of fear-mongering -- (which is what you are trying to do here), along with repetition and reinterpretation, is key for the survival of this interesting collection of beliefs.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #339

Post by kjw47 »

POI wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:42 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm All the signs are in place.
:approve: :wish:
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm Babylon the great falling is the next event. That locks the door to all not in. It triggers the tribulation.
Interesting. Can you give us a date, time, location, people involved, or any other specifics? Or, is it just another blanket open-ended 'prediction'? I mean, should I quit my job and spend all my money now, or is it going to happen 10 years from now? How much time, specifically, do I have left before this 'door' is closed?
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm C.T.Russell said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--he was correct. Using the prophecy in Daniel pointed to that year to be Rev 6--No others on earth could figure it out they had centuries before MR. Russell.
I find it interesting we still have millions of "Watchtower" followers today? The JW organization sure seems to like to double, triple, and even quadruple down. The entire organization/doctrine is basically predicated upon one dead dude, who got stuff wrong. If you do not believe me, just google 'failed watchtower predictions'.

The solution, you ask? Reinterpret them :) Indoctrination, by way of fear-mongering -- (which is what you are trying to do here), along with repetition and reinterpretation, is key for the survival of this interesting collection of beliefs.

Yes he made errors. He exposed many truths as well. I know all that occurred through the years. Matt 24:45--At the proper time truths were revealed. Errors prior to that proper time. He only had error filled trinity translations back then as well. 1750 years of lies arent undone overnight. What the JW,s do have is the backing of Jesus' teachings and the backing of true God worship history. So yes this world is in trouble, they better relook.

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Re: Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

Post #340

Post by POI »

kjw47 wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:50 pm
POI wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:42 pm
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm All the signs are in place.
:approve: :wish:
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm Babylon the great falling is the next event. That locks the door to all not in. It triggers the tribulation.
Interesting. Can you give us a date, time, location, people involved, or any other specifics? Or, is it just another blanket open-ended 'prediction'? I mean, should I quit my job and spend all my money now, or is it going to happen 10 years from now? How much time, specifically, do I have left before this 'door' is closed?
kjw47 wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:49 pm C.T.Russell said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--he was correct. Using the prophecy in Daniel pointed to that year to be Rev 6--No others on earth could figure it out they had centuries before MR. Russell.
I find it interesting we still have millions of "Watchtower" followers today? The JW organization sure seems to like to double, triple, and even quadruple down. The entire organization/doctrine is basically predicated upon one dead dude, who got stuff wrong. If you do not believe me, just google 'failed watchtower predictions'.

The solution, you ask? Reinterpret them :) Indoctrination, by way of fear-mongering -- (which is what you are trying to do here), along with repetition and reinterpretation, is key for the survival of this interesting collection of beliefs.

Yes he made errors. He exposed many truths as well. I know all that occurred through the years. Matt 24:45--At the proper time truths were revealed. Errors prior to that proper time. He only had error filled trinity translations back then as well. 1750 years of lies arent undone overnight. What the JW,s do have is the backing of Jesus' teachings and the backing of true God worship history. So yes this world is in trouble, they better relook.
Your continued doom-and-gloom approach carries with it absolutely no credibility, unless you offer up specifics. And unfortunately for Mr. Russell, when he did that, he failed.

Case/point for a proper prediction: So-and-so of such-and-such country will fire off a nuclear missile on June 14th, 2024 @1800 PST. This happens because so-and-so wants this-and-that, and so-and-so does not comply. 17 more nukes are fired, which causes X amount of people to be immediately incinerated. Over the next 14 months, this-and-that happens. And by 2027, the world human population is under 10K people. So-and-so becomes a world leader and passes XYZ policies. He remains in power for 11 years, until he dies of X. etc etc etc

You see, that is a prophecy. All you guys have is vague and open-ended stuff, which you JW's get to 'reinterpret' if/when it does not pan out to your liking.

Thus, I ask anew. Should I cash in my life's savings and blow it all quickly, or do I have more time? I need specifics, at a minimum of the example given above.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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