A Promise Unkept

[Miles]

Matthew 18:19 came up in a discussion the other day. It was being argued that while at one time god may have cared about mankind, he has since lost all interest in us, As evidence is his complete disregard of the promise he made (in his persona as Jesus) to grant prayers. It was pointed out that as much as peace on earth was prayed for, god has never granted it. That no matter how much two parents prayed for the recovery of their dying child, god let her die anyway. That no matter how much two children prayed for the return of their runaway pet Rover, god never saw fit to bring him back

Because a scriptural passage may read differently depending on which Bible one reads, I've listed six slightly different versions here so as to make it clear what Jesus is saying.

Matthew 18:19
(ERV)
To say it another way, if two of you on earth agree on anything you pray for, my Father in heaven will do what you ask.

(NABRE)
Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.

(NRSV)
Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

(KJV)
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

(NMB)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree in earth about any manner of thing, whatsoever they desire, it shall be given them by my Father who is in heaven.

(RSVCE)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.



So, what do you think happened here?

A) Jesus was wrong and misspoke about what his alter ego would do.

B) Jesus didn't misspeak, but somewhere down the line god the father changed his mind.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

There is no problem, tragedy or suffering that God has permitted that he cannot repair.

REVELATION 21:4

And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

ISAIAH 65:17

Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind

Isn't that nice. God can ignore all the suffering in the world because those who suffer wont remember it after they're dead.

These scriptures are not talking about dead people having no memories, they refer to living people. The people who will living on this our planet earth under a new world govenment.




JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE KINGDOM, THE MILLENIUM and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #68]

You can assume whatever you like. God has given in Scripture the only way for 'peace' for both the individual and the world as a whole.

Again, world peace will occur only when Jesus Christ returns and destroys the world system under Satan, and He sits on the throne of David in Jerusalem. And He will then rule in righteousness. God has outined in the Bible the things that must occur to bring about this rule of Jesus Christ over the earth. As I showed you in (Rev. 11:15).

These things are always based on God's schedule. Not man's. Not yours. When the Christian prays 'Come Lord Jesus', it is in anticipating that day. The world is always moving towards that day. And God is very involved in bringing these things about. Again, on His schedule. On His terms, as He has laid out in the Scripture.

So, two or more Christians getting together and praying for world peace, but it doesn't occur immediately, means nothing, other than they are praying amiss if they expected it to occur immediately.

Your terms don't matter no matter what they are.

So, it's takes much more than a Christian who knows god praying for 'peace on earth' before "He will answer the prayer for 'peace on earth' from the Christian who knows God." Because Now you say JC himself first has to return and destroys the world system under Satan. I'll take your first remark from post 67 as a lapse of memory rather than an attempt to fool us.

These things are always based on God's schedule. Not man's. Not yours.

So, two or more Christians getting together and praying for world peace, but it doesn't occur immediately, means nothing, other than they are praying amiss if they expected it to occur immediately.

Excuse me for assuming you were done with all the requirements for ending the suffering: That all that's necessary is that "He will answer the prayer for 'peace on earth' from the Christian who knows God." It obviously takes far more.

So, two or more Christians getting together and praying for world peace, but it doesn't occur immediately, means nothing, other than they are praying amiss if they expected it to occur immediately.

If we can assume such Christians are nothing new and that they have been making such prayers for some time now, what's god waiting for? Another million or so people to suffer before he springs into action and sends JC to end it all? I know you don't know the answer, but it is curious that god doesn't clear his "schedule" enough to squeeze in an order to his son to drop in on Earth and do his magic.

Your terms don't matter no matter what they are.

Yeah, I knew you'd duck my question "Just what terms are mine?" Why? Because I never had any. .. Start making up stuff and it could well come back and bite you.



.

[RIP]

[Replying to Miles in post #72]

Take my remarks in post #(67) however you like. I stand by each of them.

No. Not 'now do I say it'. I have always said it. Peace on earth only comes through the return of Jesus Christ and His setting up His Kingdom. And that works off of God's time table. Not yours or mine. I, as a Christian can pray for peace, but in doing so I am anticipating the return of Jesus Christ which must occur first.

Your excused.

God never clears His schedule to answer fools. His schedule is not open to change. Jesus Christ will return when the Father says it's time and not before.

I didn't duck your question. I said your terms don't matter what ever they are. If you don't have any, fine. Neither does that matter.

Rip

[Miles]

You are aware, are you not that millions of people die while suffering. There was no "later" for them.

There is no problem, tragedy or suffering that God has permitted that he cannot repair.

So why doesn't he?

Why does God allow suffering?

ANSWER God has allowed suffering to settle some essential issues raised in the Garden of Eden by Satan, a rebellious angel and our first parents Adam and Eve who he (Satan) influenced.

I have to say, it's curious that some essential issues raised in the Garden of Eden by Satan can only be settled by letting people suffer. And this has gotta be some kind of issue to require the suffering of 117 billion humans to resolve---the estimated number of humans who have ever lived. Personally, as I read the Eden story the only issue I find relating to Satan is that A&E weren't shrewd enough to see through his scheme.

.

[Miles]

There is no problem, tragedy or suffering that God has permitted that he cannot repair.

REVELATION 21:4

And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

ISAIAH 65:17

Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind

Isn't that nice. God can ignore all the suffering in the world because those who suffer wont remember it after they're dead.

These scriptures are not talking about dead people having no memories, they refer to living people. The people who will living on this our planet earth under a new world govenment.

Hmmm, You may be right; perhaps a lack of memory among his creations isn't why god ignores all the suffering in the world. Perhaps it's because he simply doesn't care. Freeing people from their suffering just isn't worth his time. What is it now, about 6,000 years of suffering mankind has undergone because god has some kind of essential issues raised in the Garden of Eden by Satan he can't seem to resolve? Maybe it's time he stepped back and caledl the Ghost Busters.



.

[JehovahsWitness]

I have to say, it's curious that some essential issues raised in the Garden of Eden by Satan can only be settled by letting people suffer.

The issue is not the suffering the issue is universal sovereignty; that humans have suffered is a by product of the settling of that central issue.



JW


FURTHER READING : Why does God allow evil and suffering?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... suffering/

VIDEO: https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 50_1_VIDEO



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[JehovahsWitness]

Perhaps it's because he simply doesn't care.

If God did not care he would not have expressed his desire to eliminate human suffering, he would not, (at great cost to himself) have made arrangements to eleviate that suffering, nor would he have sent his son to reveal how much he cares about humans. No, it is clear from scripture that God loves mankind and most certainly is sensitive to their suffering.





JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


FURTHER READING : Bible Questions Answered SUFFERING
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... suffering/


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[Miles]

I have to say, it's curious that some essential issues raised in the Garden of Eden by Satan can only be settled by letting people suffer.

The issue is not the suffering the issue is universal sovereignty; that humans have suffered is a by product of the settling of that central issue.

Of course I didn't say the issue is suffering, but the apparent means by which the essential issues, which you say is universal sovereignty, is being resolved.

.

[Miles]

Perhaps it's because he simply doesn't care.

If God did not care he would not have expressed his desire to eliminate human suffering, he would not, (at great cost to himself) have made arrangements to eleviate that suffering, nor would he have sent his son to reveal how much he cares about humans. No, it is clear from scripture that God loves mankind and most certainly is sensitive to their suffering.

I note that you don't cite any such scripture. But in any case, here we sit, year after year, century after century, millennia after millennia still awash in suffering,





and god what, still helpless to do anything about it? Gotta say, for all the omnipotence he is claimed to have it isn't proving to be anything to crow about. His desire to eliminate human suffering comes in a poor second to actually doing something about it. If I was god I would be at least be apologizing profusely for dropping the ball.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

Perhaps it's because he simply doesn't care.

If God did not care he would not have expressed his desire to eliminate human suffering, he would not, (at great cost to himself) have made arrangements to eleviate that suffering, nor would he have sent his son to reveal how much he cares about humans. No, it is clear from scripture that God loves mankind and most certainly is sensitive to their suffering.

I note that you don't cite any such scripture.

JOHN 3:16

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life

1 PETER 5:7

Throw all your anxiety upon [God], because he cares for you.”

​





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