Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Jose Fly
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Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

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Post by Jose Fly »

In another thread I expressed that I don't really understand many of the behaviors I frequently see from creationists. One of those behaviors is how they seem to not only think themselves experts in a wide variety of scientific fields, they seem to believe that their knowledge and expertise is superior to the actual professionals in those fields. Thus, we often see them attempt to debate against the work of professionals by mere assertion (IOW, "because I say so").

In that earlier thread, several folks (correctly) noted that such behavior can be explained by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. While I agree that it explains what they're doing, it still doesn't really explain why they do it or how they are seemingly oblivious to it.

The other day I came across this article....

Overconfidence and Opposition to Scientific Consensus
The recent study – Knowledge overconfidence is associated with anti-consensus views on controversial scientific issues, by Nicholas Light et al, is not surprising but is reassuringly solid in its outcome. The researchers compared peoples objective knowledge about various controversial topics (their knowledge of objective facts), with their subjective knowledge (assessment of their own knowledge) and opposition to consensus views. They found a robust effect in which opposition increased as the gap between objective and subjective knowledge increased (see graphs above the fold).

This may remind you of Dunning Kruger – the less people know the more they overestimate their knowledge (although subjective knowledge still decreases, just not as fast as objective knowledge). This is more of a super DK, those who know the least think they know the most. This has been found previously with specific topics – safety of GM food, genetic manipulation, and vaccines and autism. In addition to the super DK effect, this study shows that is correlates well with opposition to scientific consensus.

This study does not fully establish what causes such opposition, just correlates it with a dramatic lack of humility, lack of knowledge, and overestimation of one’s knowledge. There are studies and speculation trying to discern the ultimate causes of this pattern, and they are likely different for different issues. The classic explanation is the knowledge deficit model, that this pattern emerges as a result of lack of objective knowledge. But his model is mostly not true for most topics, although knowledge is still important and can even be dominant with some issues, like GM food. There is also the “cultural cognition” model, which posits that people hold beliefs in line with their culture (including political, social, and religious subcultures). This also is highly relevant for some issues more than others, like rejection of evolutionary science.

Other factors that have been implicated include cognitive style, with intuitive thinkers being more likely to fall into this opposition pattern than analytical thinkers. Intuitive thinking also correlates with another variable, conspiracy thinking, that also correlates with the rejection of consensus. Conspiracy thinking seems to occur in two flavors. There is opportunistic conspiracy thinking in which it seems to be not the driver of the false belief but a reinforcer. But there are also dedicated conspiracy theorists, who will accept any conspiracy, for which conspiracy thinking appears to be the driver.
So to put this in context of my question (why do some exhibit the D-K Effect), the research described in this article indicates that it's due to a combination of factors: lack of humility, one's cultural environment, intuitive-type thinking, conspiracy thinking

The topic for debate: Do you agree with that? Do you see this "super D-K" applying to some of the discussions/debates in this forum? Do you think there are other factors the researchers may have missed?

For me, these explanations line up quite well with the behaviors I commonly notice among creationists, most notably the lack of humility. IMO, that explains why creationists are so prone to argue via empty assertion. They think so highly of themselves, they figure "because I say so" is a valid form of argumentation and don't seem to really understand why the rest of us don't.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #101

Post by Bust Nak »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:14 am Again, maybe your niece, not mines.
I am sorry to hear that, my condolences to your brother/sister. That's something that a 3yr old should be able to do. To make it real easy, maybe she can pick the odd one out from a lion, tiger, cheetah, leopard, iguana and a banana?

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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #102

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #93]
It matches up with observational evidence? Oh, you've observed a reptile-to-bird transformations in nature?
Fossils are evidence, and fossils exist and can be studied. Their characteristics can provide a great deal of information on their existence, how they may fit within the progression of living things, etc. This overall analyis of physicaly objects is observation ... there does not need to have been a human being physically present at the time to have witnessed it, which you seem to suggest. If that were the case we could discard the Genesis account of anything prior to the time the mythical Adam was created, because he wasn't there to witness it.

Here's a simple description:

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/what-are ... -of-birds/

This is the kind of thing analysis of fossils leads to. It shows reptile to bird evolution, which you claim doesn't exist (presumably because it contradicts the Genesis story, and for no other reason). If your only objection is that it is at odds with 2000+ year old stories in a holy book, I think evolution is very safe from being overthrown any time soon.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #103

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #95]
I stand firm on the Genesis creation account.
Fine ... it just can't be supported with any kind of science.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #104

Post by brunumb »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:16 am
brunumb wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:40 pm so the analogy was simply to help clarify allow some people to catch up.
If the analogy does not help to illustrate the essential concept of the theory of evolution as proposed, please point out any significant flaws based on your understanding of the theory.
Been there, done that.
I don't see anywhere that you have addressed my photocopy analogy for evolution and shown how it fails as a simplification to illustrate how the theory works. Care to actually give it a go?
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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #105

Post by The Barbarian »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:22 am
The Barbarian wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:41 am
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:34 pm Small, micro level changes over time. You, however, believe that those small changes lead to big changes (reptile to bird).
You were going to show us the characteristics of a bird that are not found in other dinosaurs. What have you found?
Here is what I found...

Canines produce canines...
Funny thing, creationists always dodge the question. For reasons we all understand.
Not going down the "name those characteristics" rabbit hole...
I wasn't really expecting a straight answer from you. So we come to the question:
"If you can't name even one character by which birds differ from other dinosaurs, why don't you just admit that they did evolve from other dinosaurs?"

And yes, we expect you will dodge that one, too.
it is nothing but an atheistic evolutionary half time show.
Odd then, that the question first came from a Christian paleontologist.

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Re: Causes of Rejecting Scientific Consensus

Post #106

Post by Diogenes »

Someone wrote:
DrNoGods wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:58 pm It does match up with observational evidence, which is exactly why it has become an accepted, formal scientific theory (and has been for a very long time now).
It matches up with observational evidence? Oh, you've observed a reptile-to-bird transformations in nature?
This is a perfect example of the "Super D-K" post #1 describes. It includes an embarrassing lack of humility, a virtually complete ignorance of biology and evolution, and likely motivated by a religious subculture that rejects science in favor of mythology.

Anyone who understood science would not ask such a silly question that suggests if evolution takes place, it must do so during a single generation, as if a reptile would transform into a bird as in a sci-fi movie where a Dr. Jekyll turns into Mr. Hyde in a matter of minutes.

Such imbecilic thinking beggars the imagination. Such a test would overrule any phenomenon that takes more than a day to transpire. :) I suppose such an analytical approach would also rule out the "theory" that humans start out as babies and eventually become adults since you cannot "see" it happen. The lack of humility and profound ignorance that suggests something does not exist if it happens over an extended time period is a wonder to behold. :D
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