Hell - A misunderstood word

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
MissKate13
Sage
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:55 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #1

Post by MissKate13 »

The English word hell appears twenty-three times in the King James Version of the New Testament. “Hell” actually represents three different terms in the Greek New Testament.

The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times in the KJV. Many new versions use the word Hades instead of hell. There are several ways Hades is used in the NT. The best way to determine its use is by context. In some places Hades is defined as the abode of departed spirits.

Gehenna (geennan), on the other hand, seems to be a place of torment, one to be avoided. Gehenna originates from two Hebrew words meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom, in the mind of the Jews, was detestable, disgusting, sickening, entirely unpleasant, and a place to be avoided. That was exactly what Jesus wanted to get across each time he used the term geennan.

Tartarus occurs only one in the New Testament (2 Peter 2:4). Here, it is used of the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (Mt. 25:41). It denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished prior to the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:9 supports this: “the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment”

“Hell” is not the grave. In the New Testament there are three words that refer to the grave. They are taphos, mnema, and mnemeion. Taphos is used seven times and is translated sepulcher six times and tomb once.
Mnema is translated as tomb twice, grave once, and sepulcher four times.
Mnemeion is used five times as tomb, twenty-nine times as sepulcher, and eight times as grave.

Mt 5:22 geennan
Mt 5:29 geennan
Mt 5:30 geennan
Mt 10:28 geenne
Mt 11:23 adou
Mt 16:18 adou
Mt 18:9 geennan
Mt 23:15 geennes
My 23:33 geennes
Mark 9:43 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Luke 10:15 adou
Luke 12:5 geennan
Luke 16:23 ade
Acts 2:27 aden
Acts 2:31 aden
James 3:6 geennes
2 Peter 2:4 tartarōsas
Rev 1:18 adou
Rev 6:8 ades
Rev 20:13 ades
Rev 20:14 ades

Your thoughts?
”For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #11

Post by 2timothy316 »

MissKate13 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:17 pm [quote=2timothy316 post_
Do the worms live forever?
With God, all things are possible. Maybe God created a worm that never dies.
Why would He need a worm that never dies? What is the purpose of the worm, what does it do?

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14002
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #12

Post by William »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:33 pm
MissKate13 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:17 pm [quote=2timothy316 post_
Do the worms live forever?
With God, all things are possible. Maybe God created a worm that never dies.
Why would He need a worm that never dies? What is the purpose of the worm, what does it do?
[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #4]
What did the worm do to deserve such punishment?
Being related to the serpent re being a belly-crawler....and investing its support for theistic and atheistic thinkers alike.

Into the hellfire with the worm! - shouldn't be too much of a problem for it, since the worm has already endured being in the belly of a human.

How are farts created... :?:

And why does hellfire smell like farts? [according to popular mythology]

Meanwhile, "stories".
William: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

GM: Row your own boat! I AM Will Navigate!

Atheistic Thinker: Nothing I've learned since the decision I made that Religious Beliefs ARE Delusional, has changed my mind, but if a god being made itself known in some way that was convincing to me ... I'd be happy to flip.

William: I myself doubt that this could ever be achieved for you, due to your making it the way that it is, through your own decisions, rather than through any god failing to pay you a visit.
Narrative wrote:Any god-being: Okay Atheistic Thinker - I have risen to your challenge. You see me now. Are you ready to flip?

Atheistic Thinker: Of course not! You are simply a product of my brain which obviously is having some kind of malfunction which has caused this delusion.

Any god-being: What if I stripped you naked, pinched you by the scruff and dangled you over the everlasting hellfire and threatened to drop you in it. Would you consider flipping then?
GM: Necessity is The Mother of Invention

William: I would argue that Atheistic Thinker would continue arguing that his brain was being delusional. That even if he felt the pinch of his neck, the rising heat of the hellfire doom, the pooh running down his legs - he would cling to the belief that Religious Beliefs ARE Delusional and that he would wake up from the nightmare eventually - when his brain settled down again...and remain content not to flip...
Hungry Worms From Hell
First multicellular organisms discovered far below the surface of Earth
{SOURCE}

Image

One should pay noted attention to the mark of YHVH on the worm’s end...

"Just a coincidence" :?:

I think "not".

[669]
One should pay noted attention to the mark of YHVH on the worm’s end...
Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as "God"
I think of these images as representing a very real and supportive Team.
Like being pushed out from a stinky hole, can have one develop a bad self-complex
We can indeed wonder as to why YHVH creates these things and why biblical Jesus reported on them the way the authors wrote it.

But just because one might not have immediate answers to the questions you are asking doesn't mean that something reportedly said, signifies it wasn't meant to be taken literally.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #13

Post by Checkpoint »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:00 am
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:37 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:10 am
MissKate13 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:59 am
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:00 pm [Replying to MissKate13 in post #1]

Indeed.

Misunderstandings galore.


Hades is the NT equivalent to the OT "Sheol". Neither of these is "the abode of departed spirits".

God tells the truth about where the spirit goes at death when it has departed:

"the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it". Ecclesiastes 12:7.

As to Gehenna, Jesus never stated or implied it was eternal torment.
Where the worm never dies, and the fire is not quenched seem pretty eternal to me.
What did the worm do to deserve such punishment?
Nothing. The worm is literal. It receives no punishment.

It is doing what worms do to a corpse, which is not eternal.
Do the worms live forever?
The Google answer is this:

"Generally, maggots live for around five to six days before turning into pupae and eventually transitioning into adult flies.27/07/2022"

MissKate13
Sage
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:55 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #14

Post by MissKate13 »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #11]

The point is Jesus said it. That makes it true. There is justice coming to those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9). You can choose to accept or deny His words. It won’t change the outcome.
”For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #15

Post by 2timothy316 »

MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:26 am [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #11]

The point is Jesus said it. That makes it true.
No that is not the point. While it is true does that make it literal? Is what Jesus said literal? That is the point. Others that have posted on this thread have a better argument than what you have presented.
Jesus also said people will have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. What that literal too?
I find it interesting that you can't answer my questions. I find this typical of almost all people.
There is justice coming to those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9). You can choose to accept or deny His words. It won’t change the outcome.
This doesn't answer my questions. This is a strawman answer so it will be ignored as it doesn't have anything to do with 'what do worms do for an eternity'?

You're argument is not holding water and changing the subject makes me think that you don't have answers.

MissKate13
Sage
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:55 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #16

Post by MissKate13 »

2timothy316 wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:25 pm
MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:26 am [Replying to 2timothy316 in post #11]

The point is Jesus said it. That makes it true.
No that is not the point. While it is true does that make it literal? Is what Jesus said literal? That is the point. Others that have posted on this thread have a better argument than what you have presented.
Jesus also said people will have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. What that literal too?
I find it interesting that you can't answer my questions. I find this typical of almost all people.
There is justice coming to those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9). You can choose to accept or deny His words. It won’t change the outcome.
This doesn't answer my questions. This is a strawman answer so it will be ignored as it doesn't have anything to do with 'what do worms do for an eternity'?

You're argument is not holding water and changing the subject makes me think that you don't have answers.
.

Just as heaven is spiritual, so will geennan probably be. Is the worm a physical worm? Is the unquenchable fire physical? I doubt it, but then, as I stated in an earlier post, with God all things are possible. All I can say is that I wouldn’t want to end up there. Since I’ve been given the choice, I choose to follow Jesus, doing what He says.

Imho, Jesus had to use pictures that we could relate to while making the point that it was a place of unending suffering and torment.

He took geennan so seriously that he could say without the slightest hesitation to remove your eye, or cut off your hand or foot if it would keep you from sinning and ending up in geennan.

Do you think there is no such place? Do you think we just die like Rover, becoming dead all over? Annihilation? Why all the dire warnings from Jesus if that were so?
”For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #17

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #16]

Truth doesn't lie in one's opinion. Scripture is truth. It is not up to your opinion or mine if something is spiritual or physical.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything." Ecc 9:5

According to the Bible dead people don't even know what a worm is. They don't know suffering either because they don't know anything. This is not my opinion. One's opinion on the matter doesn't change what is true.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #18

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #16]
Imho, Jesus had to use pictures that we could relate to while making the point that it was a place of unending suffering and torment.

He took geennan so seriously that he could say without the slightest hesitation to remove your eye, or cut off your hand or foot if it would keep you from sinning and ending up in geennan.

Do you think there is no such place? Do you think we just die like Rover, becoming dead all over? Annihilation? Why all the dire warnings from Jesus if that were so?
We all have our opinions and questions about this and that.

I suggest you compare what you wrote about Gehenna(quoted above), with what Jesus actually stated:
4“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to throw you into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear Him.
Luke 12: 4-5.

MissKate13
Sage
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:55 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #19

Post by MissKate13 »

Checkpoint wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:33 pm [Replying to MissKate13 in post #16]
Imho, Jesus had to use pictures that we could relate to while making the point that it was a place of unending suffering and torment.

He took geennan so seriously that he could say without the slightest hesitation to remove your eye, or cut off your hand or foot if it would keep you from sinning and ending up in geennan.

Do you think there is no such place? Do you think we just die like Rover, becoming dead all over? Annihilation? Why all the dire warnings from Jesus if that were so?
We all have our opinions and questions about this and that.

I suggest you compare what you wrote about Gehenna(quoted above), with what Jesus actually stated:
4“I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more.

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to throw you into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear Him.
Luke 12: 4-5.



You did not answer my question. Why all the dire warnings from Jesus?

“43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two hands and go into hell, into the unquenchable fire. 45 If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’“

Hell in the above passage is geennan.

The passage is from the word of God, not my opinion.

I don’t get your point about Luke 12:4-5. In that passage Jesus is saying no to be afraid of those who can physically kill us, but fear God who has the power to throw us into Geennan. Mark 9:47-48 gives us a picture of what that will be like. Jesus makes it clear that it is a PLACE of unending torment.

Again I ask. Why such a dire warning from Jesus? Please answer the question.
”For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24

Online
User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14002
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Hell - A misunderstood word

Post #20

Post by William »

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #19]
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to throw you into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear Him.
Who is this entity which has the authority to kill and to throw that which is killed, away?

Post Reply