The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

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Post by Diogenes »

The proposition for debate is that when one takes the tales of Genesis literally, one becomes intellectually disabled, at least temporarily. Taking Genesis literally requires one to reject biology (which includes evolution) and other sciences in favor of 'magic.' Geology and radiometric dating have to be rejected since the Earth formed only about 6000 years ago, during the same week the Earth was made (in a single day).

Much of the debate in the topic of Science and Religion consists of theists who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis rejecting basic science. Most of the resulting debates are not worth engaging in.
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #461

Post by Bust Nak »

dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:55 pm Your sandbox, toy cars and etc are actually not evidence. Not in any way.
Incorrect. it is evidence in at least one way: the scientific way.
You have been shown to have nothing even relating to what time is like in the far universe and have instead offered truly foolish toys and etc as evidence. No idea why you think you can pull a Buzz Lightyear on us here.
You were told exactly why: Toy cars and whatnots are relating to what time is like in the far universe, because they confirm the assumption/beliefs of uniformitarianism, upon which our model of the universe is built. All you have ever offered in this thread is denial. I get that you don't care about science, but that doesn't mean much in the context of this forum.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #462

Post by dad1 »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:20 am Incorrect. it is evidence in at least one way: the scientific way.
Not in any way is that remotely related to a third cousin of the truth. There IS NO evidence about what time is like in the far universe. Only belief. You thought pure belief was the 'scientific way'?
You were told exactly why: Toy cars and whatnots are relating to what time is like in the far universe, because they confirm the assumption/beliefs of uniformitarianism,
I'll let that comment stand for lurkers to read...and weep in laughter.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #463

Post by Bust Nak »

dad1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:01 am Not in any way is that remotely related to a third cousin of the truth.
Your "truth," maybe. But that's not a very interesting topic for debate, I don't care about your religious beliefs. Suffice to say, regardless of what you think is and isn't true, what I said is 100% scientific.
There IS NO evidence about what time is like in the far universe. Only belief. You thought pure belief was the 'scientific way'?
Not just any old beliefs of course, but for the beliefs in question it is indeed the scientific way.
I'll let that comment stand for lurkers to read...and weep in laughter.
You do that. I stand by my comment and don't care if creationists laugh. That great thing about science is that it works whether people laugh at it or not.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #464

Post by The Barbarian »

(Claim that big bang is an atheistic theory)
=
You have it backwards. LeMaitre was a Catholic priest.

dad writes:
/ So does that mean we should take his opinion on whether to get married? Or how God created the universe?
I'm just pointing out that you object to the Christian understanding of it.

The nonbeliever was Fred Hoyle, who attacked the theory. So believers accepted it and an athiest did not.
So what?
At least you're consistent.
Catholics accepted a lot of things. Not something I am interested in or care about.
Jesus said the world would hate us. Not a problem.

If you believed God and His word (or even read it) you might have realized that the text itself says that it's not a literal account.. You never even made it to first base.

Why am I not surprised that you are angry at Christians?
Don't conflate christians with religious dreamers who invented things that are opposed to Scripture and for which there is no evidence.
You're wrong about that, too. Many YE creationists are valid Christians who are merely in error about some things like the nature of Genesis.
Last edited by The Barbarian on Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #465

Post by dad1 »

Bust Nak wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:52 am Your "truth," maybe. But that's not a very interesting topic for debate, I don't care about your religious beliefs. Suffice to say, regardless of what you think is and isn't true, what I said is 100% scientific.
No, the truth that the literal toys you offered as 'evidence' of the nature of time in the distant universe is a bad joke. WE had your truth offering, and sorry, I will stick with God's thanks.
Not just any old beliefs of course, but for the beliefs in question it is indeed the scientific way.
Except the scientific way has zero to say about the nature of time itself in the far universe. Having a little time change effect IN the fishbowl has nothing to do with the far universe.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #466

Post by Bust Nak »

dad1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:55 pm No, the truth that the literal toys you offered as 'evidence' of the nature of time in the distant universe is a bad joke. WE had your truth offering, and sorry, I will stick with God's thanks.
That's your prerogative, freedom of religion and all that.
Except the scientific way has zero to say about the nature of time itself in the far universe. Having a little time change effect IN the fishbowl has nothing to do with the far universe.
We heard you the first time round. That's your religious view, it's acceptable as a religious view. Just don't get it mixed up with science. Do you have anything new to add?

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #467

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to dad1 in post #465]
Except the scientific way has zero to say about the nature of time itself in the far universe. Having a little time change effect IN the fishbowl has nothing to do with the far universe.
Here's yet another example of how spectroscopy provides a wealth of information on what processes, including time, are like far from Earth:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/24/world/wa ... index.html

The light emitted by the atoms and molecules from an exoplanet 700 light years away have the idential line patterns as the same atoms and molecules emitting right here on Earth. If these emiisions (photons) somehow changed their wavelengths magically when they entered the "fishbowl" this would not be the case.

Observations like this destroy your ridiculously silly idea that the emitted light is somehow "changed" close to Earth (in ways that you've yet to even attempt to explain), and show that the processes of light emission and absorption occur exactly the same way at this exoplanet as they do here. This means light has the same characteristics, travels at the same speed, interacts with the electric dipoles of atoms and molecules, in the same time frames, etc. as it does here. Light, time, atoms and molecules, etc. have the same characteristics "there" as they do here, and these kinds of spectroscopic observations prove it. Face it, you have no counter arguments or evidence to dispute this ... just continued hand-waving.
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #468

Post by dad1 »

Bust Nak wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:45 am
dad1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:55 pm No, the truth that the literal toys you offered as 'evidence' of the nature of time in the distant universe is a bad joke. WE had your truth offering, and sorry, I will stick with God's thanks.
That's your prerogative, freedom of religion and all that.
Except the scientific way has zero to say about the nature of time itself in the far universe. Having a little time change effect IN the fishbowl has nothing to do with the far universe.
We heard you the first time round. That's your religious view, it's acceptable as a religious view. Just don't get it mixed up with science. Do you have anything new to add?
This is an area of the forum where you must have more than beliefs for your claims. You have demonstrated that you don't. WE do not need to hear you natter on about other beliefs.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #469

Post by dad1 »

DrNoGods wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:14 am
Here's yet another example of how spectroscopy provides a wealth of information on what processes, including time, are like far from Earth:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/24/world/wa ... index.html

The light emitted by the atoms and molecules from an exoplanet 700 light years away have the idential line patterns as the same atoms and molecules emitting right here on Earth. If these emiisions (photons) somehow changed their wavelengths magically when they entered the "fishbowl" this would not be the case.
That example has ZERO to do with time in the universe. That example uses beliefs to place something 700 light years away. Man has not even been one light day away. Neither is the light you see coming in here further than that distance!! Trying to pretend that this is related to the nature and existence of time itself in the far universe is ludicrous. Yes, atoms here exist a certain way. You see all things here. Connect the dots.
This means light has the same characteristics, travels at the same speed, interacts with the electric dipoles of atoms and molecules, in the same time frames, etc. as it does here.
Since the light IS HERE what else would we expect? You are trying to tack on the belief that time is the same all the way to the speck out there (that you thought was a planet), By using the belief time is the same, you GET the 700 light year number. You cannot turn around and claim that BECAUSE the speck is 700 light years away...yada yada yada! Add to that the fact that you only see light after it arrives here, and your example is so busted it is comical.
Light, time, atoms and molecules, etc. have the same characteristics "there" as they do here,

By looking at light here, we know zero about time out there. You also cannot use untold years of time out in the unknown universe as some distance measure to the stars. Get over it.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #470

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to dad1 in post #469]
That example has ZERO to do with time in the universe.
It does, you just can't understand why because you know nothing about spectroscopy and related subjects. Strike 1.
That example uses beliefs to place something 700 light years away. Man has not even been one light day away
.
How far man or a physical probe has been from Earth is irrelevant as to how the distances to objects are determined. Stike 2.
Yes, atoms here exist a certain way. You see all things here. Connect the dots.
The atoms emitting the light are not here, they are at the distance object. Another key point that you can't seem to grasp. The atoms emitting the light at the distance object are still at the distant object (or were 700 years ago). The very fact that the multiple spectral lines from multiple atoms and molecules are in exactly the same pattern (vs. wavelength) in both places is what tells us a great deal about the environment (and time) at the distant object. Strike 3.
By looking at light here, we know zero about time out there.
You've already struck out, but this makes you 0 for 4. Got any actual rebuttals, or can you only repeat the same things over and over again that have no substance or scientific support? If you only want to preach your version of a religion, or bash science without any valid rebuttals to what people have presented, there are other forum sections for that.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
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