Peace to you,
I will respond to your post, then repeat some of the things you overlooked or ignored from my post.
MissKate13 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm
[
Replying to tam in post #1193]
You wrote: “But Christ will also return (as I am sure you agree) and establish His Kingdom and reign upon the earth (and His Bride - made up of people from all nations, tribes, tongues - will reign with Him as king-priests for a thousand years).”
Kate: NO, I don’t agree that when Christ returns, He will establish His kingdom on earth. He’s already done that. He established His spiritual kingdom on earth Pentecost AD 33. How many times do you think Jesus needs to establish His kingdom? It’s already been done.
But you do agree that He will return (which is all I suggested that you agree with).
I am assuming here, but I think you agree that this world is not the Kingdom.
But the Kingdom will be established upon the earth. That does not mean that the Kingdom is not within us (if indeed Christ and God are in us, via holy spirit).
You wrote: We can’t be in the thousand year reign of Christ because Satan has not been cast down into the abyss.
Kate: You must have missed 2 Peter 2:4, which tells us where those disobedient angels, including Satan are. “4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell,a placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;” I told you in my last post that Satan is bound.
Satan has not been cast into 'hell' (tartarus). He was cast to the earth and is roaming about, as stated and supported in the previous post.
You wrote: He is King, yes. He has not returned and exercised that authority upon the earth just yet though. His Bride is not reigning as king-priests upon the earth just yet (we have not yet been 'taken up' and changed; and we are still in training).
Kate: I never said Jesus has returned. Jehovah’s Witnesses falsely claim Jesus returned in 1914. I vehemently disagree with them.
Their claim is incorrect.
You question the authority of Jesus, King of Kings? What do you mean He hasn’t exercised His authority?
Having authority and exercising that authority upon the earth are not the same thing. I do not think we are in too much disagreement on this point because you said the following:
If you had said that not all things have been put under His feet at this time, I would have agreed, but to say He is not exercising His authority now is entirely incorrect.
Here is the order of events that will occur at the end of time.
1. The dead will be raised, both the just and the unjust (John 5:28-29).
This (the second resurrection) occurs at the end of the thousand years (Rev 20:11-15)- a thousand years AFTER the first resurrection (the first resurrection occurs at the START of the thousand years).
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Those who are alive when He comes will be changed (I Corinthians 15:50-53).
That is true, but this occurs alongside the first resurrection (of those
in Christ who died).
The judgement will occur (Matthew 25:31-46).
Matt 25:31-46 is not talking about the judgment.
The separation of the sheep and the goats begins when Christ returns (note - as stated in the previous post - that Christ sits upon His throne here; He does not vacate His throne), at the start of the thousand years. The sheep and the goats are people of the nations who are alive when Christ returns. None of the sheep or the goats are Christian (though they might think otherwise); Christians were already taken up and changed (at the first resurrection). Faith is not the reason the sheep are invited into the Kingdom.
**
The second resurrection (the resurrection
of the dead) is what occurs at the end of the thousand years.
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
At the resurrection
of the dead - some are resurrected to life and some are resurrected to judgment and the second death.
None of these people can be Christian, because (actual) Christians took part in the FIRST resurrection.
The order:
- Christ returns (bringing with Him those who had died in Him, the first resurrection, and gathering up to Him to be changed, those who are still alive when He returns).
- The thousand years begins (The Bride reigns as king-priests with Christ upon the earth for a thousand years), and the separation of the sheep and the goats begins (sheep and goats being people of the nations who are alive when Christ returns, some will be invited into the Kingdom, and the rest cast into the outer darkness - outside the Kingdom, outside of Christ).
- At the end of the thousand years, Satan is released from the abyss (where he was imprisoned at the start of the thousand years) and gathers 'gog and magog' (which includes those people outside the Kingdom), to ride across the breadth of the earth and attack the people God loves, but fire comes down from heaven and devours them. (Rev 20:7-9)
- Then the resurrection of the dead occurs, where some are resurrected to life (and so invited into the Kingdom) and some are resurrected to judgment and the second death.
- Then God is all in all.
Not one word is said about Jesus setting up another kingdom on earth.
It is not 'another' Kingdom. It is just the one Kingdom, and will spread throughout the entire earth. God's dwelling place will be
with man. The New Jerusalem (the Bride) comes down out of heaven.
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
**
From my post, I did not see where you addressed the following relevant points:
But there is no room for the Adversary to be out and roaming about in the passage from Revelation that I posted in the previous post. He is cast into the abyss which is locked and sealed over him. That has not happened. Please note: he is cast there - not to prevent possession - but to keep him from DECEIVING the nations. That is the thing about men interpreting for themselves, they always miss something. Many things can be made to 'sound' right, but that does not make them true.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time. Rev 20:2,
Or the following,
His reign does not end when He returns. See sheep and goats parable. This is pretty clear in that account:
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.
He does not vacate His throne. He sits upon it.
Please also note His words to the seven churches when speaking about the timing of when His Church/Bride/Brothers will reign (Rev 2 and 3):
To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.
I will give; does my will to the end (these are both future tense, and this is written after His death and resurrection and ascension).
We are in TRAINING now. He is subduing His Bride, teaching us peace, training and refining us now (for when we reign with Him upon the earth for a thousand years).
Or the following,
Paul is listing things that occur in order, here, but it is not a detailed or complete account, and it does not state how much time passes in between those things. Just look at the fuller passage: How much time will have passed between Christ's resurrection and the resurrection of those who belong to Him?
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Plus, please note that Paul says here that we who belong to Him will be made alive 'when he comes'. That is the first resurrection (those in Christ who are still alive when He returns will be taken up and 'changed' at that time). The first resurrection occurs then when Christ returns - and Revelation states the first resurrection occurs at the start of the thousand years.
Therefore:
Christ's return = the start of the thousand years.
Just some things to consider, though if we want to know the truth of this or any other matter, we should take it to the One who IS the Truth (Christ Jaheshua).
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy