The kingdom of God.

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Checkpoint
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The kingdom of God.

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:
Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1201

Post by OneWay »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:55 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:52 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:51 pm
MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm 3. The world will be destroyed.
Do you mean the planet earth? If God destroys the earth how can he rule over it forever?
How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?
Including lie?


See edit above.
If it were not possible for God to lie then
it would be a lie to say all things are possible to God.

Oh wait a minute

All things are possible to God.

How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1202

Post by JehovahsWitness »

MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pmJehovah’s Witnesses falsely claim Jesus returned in 1914.
No we do not. We believe Christ became KING of the promised messianic kingdom in 1914. His "return" is yet a future event.



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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1203

Post by JehovahsWitness »

OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:02 pm All things are possible to God.

How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?
TITUS 1:2

... based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie promised long ago
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1204

Post by OneWay »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:08 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:02 pm All things are possible to God.

How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?
TITUS 1:2

... based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie promised long ago
How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1205

Post by JehovahsWitness »

IS THE ABYSS OF REVELATION THE TARTARUS PETER REFERED TO?

No.
1. The word used is entirely different (aʹbys·sos)

2. After Jesus resurrection Paul reports of demonic powers in heavenly places, the word abyss means “exceedingly deep

3. Revelation indicates the abyss cuts Satan off from having ANY influence over mankind, yet even after Pentecost there are reports of demonic possession (compare Rev 20:1-3 ; Acts 16:16-24)

4. Peter indicated the rebellious angels were cast into Tartarus during Noahs day as punishment for their rebellion at that time (2 Pet 2:4, 5 compare Jude 6)

5. In Jesus day the demons were still fearful of being cast into the Abyss as a future punishment (Luke 8:31)





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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1206

Post by JehovahsWitness »

OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:16 pmHow come you do not believe all things are possible to God?


IS IT POSDIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE?
HEBREWS 6:18-19 (NLT)

... it is impossible for God to lie

TITUS 1:2

... based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie promised long ago




To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

GOD, THE DIVINE NAME and ...THE TRINITY
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1207

Post by OneWay »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:54 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:16 pmHow come you do not believe all things are possible to God?


IS IT POSDIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE?
HEBREWS 6:18-19 (NLT)

... it is impossible for God to lie

TITUS 1:2

... based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, who cannot lie promised long ago




To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

GOD, THE DIVINE NAME and ...THE TRINITY
Why do you believe them?

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1208

Post by MissKate13 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:29 pm
MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm
Kate: NO, I don’t agree that when Christ returns, He will establish His kingdom on earth. He’s already done that. He established His spiritual kingdom on earth Pentecost AD 33.
That's spiritual kingdom over his believing followers , but what about the literal kingdom that will do the following ?

ISAIAH 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end
ISIAIAH 11 : 9 They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
PROVERBS 2: 21, 22

For only the upright will reside in the earth and the blameless will remain in it. As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth ...

Are you suggesting these scriptures have already been fulfilled ?
The kingdom is here now. “The kingdom” is not OVER its followers. KING JESUS is! Those who truly believe in Him are His subjects. They live according to His law, obeying His commands. His realm is His church, His body, where He lives in the hearts of His subjects.

Isaiah 9:6 has been fulfilled. You must understand what exactly is the peace Jesus brought. It is not the peace that ends world wars. The peace Jesus brought to earth was peace between God and rebellious man through the cross. Jesus is our peace on earth. He is the Prince of Peace!

Isaiah 11:9 has been fulfilled. His church (the holy mountain), still stands 2000 years after He established His Kingship and authority over His followers. The world is filled with knowledge of YHWH. Most reject it.

Proverbs 2:21-22 Imho, the proverb can apply to past, present and future. Read the entire chapter for better understanding. It’s about wisdom, which comes from God’s instruction. Those who walk upright in His teachings will be rewarded both now and in the future. The wicked are cut off, both now and in the future. There is plenty of evidence of this all around us that integrity pays better than treachery, that honesty is better than thievery, that truthfulness is better than falsehood, and that righteousness is better than wickedness, even in human terms.
”For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1209

Post by JehovahsWitness »

MissKate13 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:45 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:29 pm
MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm
Kate: NO, I don’t agree that when Christ returns, He will establish His kingdom on earth. He’s already done that. He established His spiritual kingdom on earth Pentecost AD 33.
That's spiritual kingdom over his believing followers , but what about the literal kingdom that will do the following ?

ISAIAH 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end
ISIAIAH 11 : 9 They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
PROVERBS 2: 21, 22

For only the upright will reside in the earth and the blameless will remain in it. As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth ...

Are you suggesting these scriptures have already been fulfilled ?
The kingdom is here now. .
Is that a "YES? Have those scriptures been fulfilled" yes or no? It's a simple enough question!

Would it be fair to say that you believe this world where there is hunger, crime war, injustice, disease and so much human suffering is the fulfilment of the Messianic promises ? You believe that when Jesus taught us to pray that "God's will be done on earth", THIS (what humanity is presently experiencing} is that wonderful time, longed hoped for? Take a good long look at the picture below, and then tell me this is God's will for the earth.

Image
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #1210

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

I will respond to your post, then repeat some of the things you overlooked or ignored from my post.
MissKate13 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 pm [Replying to tam in post #1193]

You wrote: “But Christ will also return (as I am sure you agree) and establish His Kingdom and reign upon the earth (and His Bride - made up of people from all nations, tribes, tongues - will reign with Him as king-priests for a thousand years).”

Kate: NO, I don’t agree that when Christ returns, He will establish His kingdom on earth. He’s already done that. He established His spiritual kingdom on earth Pentecost AD 33. How many times do you think Jesus needs to establish His kingdom? It’s already been done.

But you do agree that He will return (which is all I suggested that you agree with).

I am assuming here, but I think you agree that this world is not the Kingdom.

But the Kingdom will be established upon the earth. That does not mean that the Kingdom is not within us (if indeed Christ and God are in us, via holy spirit).
You wrote: We can’t be in the thousand year reign of Christ because Satan has not been cast down into the abyss.

Kate: You must have missed 2 Peter 2:4, which tells us where those disobedient angels, including Satan are. “4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell,a placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;” I told you in my last post that Satan is bound.


Satan has not been cast into 'hell' (tartarus). He was cast to the earth and is roaming about, as stated and supported in the previous post.

You wrote: He is King, yes. He has not returned and exercised that authority upon the earth just yet though. His Bride is not reigning as king-priests upon the earth just yet (we have not yet been 'taken up' and changed; and we are still in training).

Kate: I never said Jesus has returned. Jehovah’s Witnesses falsely claim Jesus returned in 1914. I vehemently disagree with them.
Their claim is incorrect.

You question the authority of Jesus, King of Kings? What do you mean He hasn’t exercised His authority?
Having authority and exercising that authority upon the earth are not the same thing. I do not think we are in too much disagreement on this point because you said the following:
If you had said that not all things have been put under His feet at this time, I would have agreed, but to say He is not exercising His authority now is entirely incorrect.
Here is the order of events that will occur at the end of time.
1. The dead will be raised, both the just and the unjust (John 5:28-29).
This (the second resurrection) occurs at the end of the thousand years (Rev 20:11-15)- a thousand years AFTER the first resurrection (the first resurrection occurs at the START of the thousand years).

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Those who are alive when He comes will be changed (I Corinthians 15:50-53).
That is true, but this occurs alongside the first resurrection (of those in Christ who died).
The judgement will occur (Matthew 25:31-46).
Matt 25:31-46 is not talking about the judgment.

The separation of the sheep and the goats begins when Christ returns (note - as stated in the previous post - that Christ sits upon His throne here; He does not vacate His throne), at the start of the thousand years. The sheep and the goats are people of the nations who are alive when Christ returns. None of the sheep or the goats are Christian (though they might think otherwise); Christians were already taken up and changed (at the first resurrection). Faith is not the reason the sheep are invited into the Kingdom.

**

The second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead) is what occurs at the end of the thousand years.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

At the resurrection of the dead - some are resurrected to life and some are resurrected to judgment and the second death.

None of these people can be Christian, because (actual) Christians took part in the FIRST resurrection.

The order:


- Christ returns (bringing with Him those who had died in Him, the first resurrection, and gathering up to Him to be changed, those who are still alive when He returns).

- The thousand years begins (The Bride reigns as king-priests with Christ upon the earth for a thousand years), and the separation of the sheep and the goats begins (sheep and goats being people of the nations who are alive when Christ returns, some will be invited into the Kingdom, and the rest cast into the outer darkness - outside the Kingdom, outside of Christ).

- At the end of the thousand years, Satan is released from the abyss (where he was imprisoned at the start of the thousand years) and gathers 'gog and magog' (which includes those people outside the Kingdom), to ride across the breadth of the earth and attack the people God loves, but fire comes down from heaven and devours them. (Rev 20:7-9)

- Then the resurrection of the dead occurs, where some are resurrected to life (and so invited into the Kingdom) and some are resurrected to judgment and the second death.

- Then God is all in all.
Not one word is said about Jesus setting up another kingdom on earth.


It is not 'another' Kingdom. It is just the one Kingdom, and will spread throughout the entire earth. God's dwelling place will be with man. The New Jerusalem (the Bride) comes down out of heaven.

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”


**

From my post, I did not see where you addressed the following relevant points:
But there is no room for the Adversary to be out and roaming about in the passage from Revelation that I posted in the previous post. He is cast into the abyss which is locked and sealed over him. That has not happened. Please note: he is cast there - not to prevent possession - but to keep him from DECEIVING the nations. That is the thing about men interpreting for themselves, they always miss something. Many things can be made to 'sound' right, but that does not make them true.

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time. Rev 20:2,
Or the following,
His reign does not end when He returns. See sheep and goats parable. This is pretty clear in that account:

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.

He does not vacate His throne. He sits upon it.

Please also note His words to the seven churches when speaking about the timing of when His Church/Bride/Brothers will reign (Rev 2 and 3):

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

I will give; does my will to the end (these are both future tense, and this is written after His death and resurrection and ascension).

We are in TRAINING now. He is subduing His Bride, teaching us peace, training and refining us now (for when we reign with Him upon the earth for a thousand years).
Or the following,
Paul is listing things that occur in order, here, but it is not a detailed or complete account, and it does not state how much time passes in between those things. Just look at the fuller passage: How much time will have passed between Christ's resurrection and the resurrection of those who belong to Him?

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Plus, please note that Paul says here that we who belong to Him will be made alive 'when he comes'. That is the first resurrection (those in Christ who are still alive when He returns will be taken up and 'changed' at that time). The first resurrection occurs then when Christ returns - and Revelation states the first resurrection occurs at the start of the thousand years.

Therefore:

Christ's return = the start of the thousand years.


Just some things to consider, though if we want to know the truth of this or any other matter, we should take it to the One who IS the Truth (Christ Jaheshua).

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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