How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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otseng
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How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

From the On the Bible being inerrant thread:
nobspeople wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:42 amHow can you trust something that's written about god that contradictory, contains errors and just plain wrong at times? Is there a logical way to do so, or do you just want it to be god's word so much that you overlook these things like happens so often through the history of christianity?
otseng wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:08 am The Bible can still be God's word, inspired, authoritative, and trustworthy without the need to believe in inerrancy.
For debate:
How can the Bible be considered authoritative and inspired without the need to believe in the doctrine of inerrancy?

While debating, do not simply state verses to say the Bible is inspired or trustworthy.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1571

Post by OneWay »

dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:28 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:20 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:18 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:14 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:49 pmYou do not have any freedom.

Say what? Maybe you should speak for yourself. Those who He sets free are free. Indeed.

I have never seen an error in the bible yet.
Jesus has not set you free.
And for those whom he has set free are not free to do as they please.
Why would anyone value your opinion of what He does over what He says? You do not get a vote about me being free.
So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Free from death is a good start. Obsessing over the word free and applying it to every conceivable use of the word is not a game I am interested in playing.
I proved that you are not free to answer this question.
So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1572

Post by dad1 »

OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1573

Post by OneWay »

dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:53 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?
I don't know.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1574

Post by dad1 »

OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:32 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:53 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?
I don't know.
Great, so if you find a mistake get back to us.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1575

Post by OneWay »

dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:32 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:53 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?
I don't know.
Great, so if you find a mistake get back to us.
I have already pointed out to you
several mistakes in your theology.
You should thank me for it.

Correction is priceless.
To be corrected is a priceless gift.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1576

Post by dad1 »

OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:32 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:53 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?
I don't know.
Great, so if you find a mistake get back to us.
I have already pointed out to you
several mistakes in your theology.
You should thank me for it.

Correction is priceless.
To be corrected is a priceless gift.
If opinions weighed in with the bible, I might consider them. When little self righteous statements are made like. 'you are wrong' 'mistakes in your theology' 'you are not free' etc all I can suggest is that you try to find some new one liners.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1577

Post by otseng »

dad1 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:13 am
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:32 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:53 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?
I don't know.
Great, so if you find a mistake get back to us.
I have already pointed out to you
several mistakes in your theology.
You should thank me for it.

Correction is priceless.
To be corrected is a priceless gift.
If opinions weighed in with the bible, I might consider them. When little self righteous statements are made like. 'you are wrong' 'mistakes in your theology' 'you are not free' etc all I can suggest is that you try to find some new one liners.
This thread is not to debate if the Bible is inerrant or not. This thread assumes the Bible is not inerrant and it is not a matter to be debated here. To debate if the Bible is inerrant or not, please debate in On the Bible being inerrant.

But I will ask this, if I believe the Bible is not inerrant and I believe in the authority of scripture and I also take many things in Genesis and the entire Bible literally (6 day creation, God created all life, Adam and Eve, tower of Babel, global flood, Israelites in Egypt, Israelites conquering Canaan, resurrection of Jesus, etc), does it make me any different than any other inerrantist? I argue no.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1578

Post by otseng »

DrNoGods wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:48 am I'm not arguing that there is no cause for dark energy, but that we don't know what the cause is.
Yes, I'm not arguing for the cause of dark energy itself. What I'm arguing for is the cause of the absolute uniformity of the expansion of the fabric.
Or it could be like gravity in that it was established early on and persisted as a universal "thing" that acts the same everywhere without any need for communication or signaling between locations. Or it could be something else entirely. Still very much an open science problem.
There is another way that things can get affected that makes it appear to us that it is uniform, but without the need for instantaneous changes at all points in the universe. The changes could occur in an isotropic manner, but not a homogeneous manner.
White holes are still conjecture just like dark energy, and papers like this offer up ideas on what they mght be in the context of a Big Bang type scenario:
Not so sure it's a conjecture, but pretty much I think it is a proper description of the early universe. Again, if all the matter and energy of the universe was in a very small volume, wouldn't that by definition be a black/white hole?
"This region does not exist for black holes that have formed through gravitational collapse, however, nor are there any observed physical processes through which a white hole could be formed."
We can generalize that to say we don't know any physical process that could form the initial state of the universe.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1579

Post by dad1 »

otseng wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:54 am
dad1 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:13 am
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:34 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:32 pm
dad1 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:53 pm
OneWay wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:51 pm So tell me, are you free, to always obey every commandment,
of Jesus Christ at all times? If you say "yes" then why do not do it?
Do we take it then that you feel the bible is errant?
I don't know.
Great, so if you find a mistake get back to us.
I have already pointed out to you
several mistakes in your theology.
You should thank me for it.

Correction is priceless.
To be corrected is a priceless gift.
If opinions weighed in with the bible, I might consider them. When little self righteous statements are made like. 'you are wrong' 'mistakes in your theology' 'you are not free' etc all I can suggest is that you try to find some new one liners.
This thread is not to debate if the Bible is inerrant or not. This thread assumes the Bible is not inerrant and it is not a matter to be debated here. To debate if the Bible is inerrant or not, please debate in On the Bible being inerrant.

But I will ask this, if I believe the Bible is not inerrant and I believe in the authority of scripture and I also take many things in Genesis and the entire Bible literally (6 day creation, God created all life, Adam and Eve, tower of Babel, global flood, Israelites in Egypt, Israelites conquering Canaan, resurrection of Jesus, etc), does it make me any different than any other inerrantist? I argue no.
There is no debate that the bible is wrong. It isn't. Since you say this thread assumes what is wrong and debate about it is not wanted, cheerio...

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1580

Post by otseng »

otseng wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:07 am There is another way that things can get affected that makes it appear to us that it is uniform, but without the need for instantaneous changes at all points in the universe. The changes could occur in an isotropic manner, but not a homogeneous manner.
More about what it means to be isotropic, but not homogeneous...

Isotropic in this context means from an observer on earth, the universe appears to be uniform. It doesn't matter what direction we view things. Redshifting is not a function of what direction we view it. This can be possible in a non-homogeneous environment if things are happening concentrically and we are at the center.

For example, imagine a series of concentric circles. Each circle is contained in the next larger circle. All the circles have the same location for the center. Sorta like a cross section of a tree trunk. Let's say each circle is semi-transparent and have a different color. From the perspective from the center of the circle looking outward, the color would be uniform. However, it is not homogeneous since each circle is a different color.

This is what is posited in the white hole model. Each circle represents the collapse of the event horizon over time as matter is leaving the initial white hole. During the initial state, the event horizon is beyond all the matter/energy of the universe. As the matter/energy expands, the event horizon will start collapsing. Eventually, the event horizon will totally collapse as there is not enough concentrated matter to form a white/black hole.

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