Hell - A misunderstood word

[MissKate13]

The English word hell appears twenty-three times in the King James Version of the New Testament. “Hell” actually represents three different terms in the Greek New Testament.

The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times in the KJV. Many new versions use the word Hades instead of hell. There are several ways Hades is used in the NT. The best way to determine its use is by context. In some places Hades is defined as the abode of departed spirits.

Gehenna (geennan), on the other hand, seems to be a place of torment, one to be avoided. Gehenna originates from two Hebrew words meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom, in the mind of the Jews, was detestable, disgusting, sickening, entirely unpleasant, and a place to be avoided. That was exactly what Jesus wanted to get across each time he used the term geennan.

Tartarus occurs only one in the New Testament (2 Peter 2:4). Here, it is used of the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (Mt. 25:41). It denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished prior to the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:9 supports this: “the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment”

“Hell” is not the grave. In the New Testament there are three words that refer to the grave. They are taphos, mnema, and mnemeion. Taphos is used seven times and is translated sepulcher six times and tomb once.
Mnema is translated as tomb twice, grave once, and sepulcher four times.
Mnemeion is used five times as tomb, twenty-nine times as sepulcher, and eight times as grave.

Mt 5:22 geennan
Mt 5:29 geennan
Mt 5:30 geennan
Mt 10:28 geenne
Mt 11:23 adou
Mt 16:18 adou
Mt 18:9 geennan
Mt 23:15 geennes
My 23:33 geennes
Mark 9:43 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Luke 10:15 adou
Luke 12:5 geennan
Luke 16:23 ade
Acts 2:27 aden
Acts 2:31 aden
James 3:6 geennes
2 Peter 2:4 tartarōsas
Rev 1:18 adou
Rev 6:8 ades
Rev 20:13 ades
Rev 20:14 ades

Your thoughts?

[William]

"the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it". Ecclesiastes 12:7.

What is the context, that this sentence has meaning?

[JehovahsWitness]

"Generally, maggots live for around five to six days before turning into pupae and eventually transitioning into adult flies.

I think we can all agree Jesus was using a metaphor, the only question is, a metaphor for what?


Worms (magots) are present when a body is left to decompose. They are thus a fitting symbol, not of conscious toment but of an undignified death.


Do the maggots cause pain for the damned (MARK 9:48)?
viewtopic.php?p=1027461#p1027461

[William]

"the dust returns to the ground from which it came, and the spirit returns to God who gave it". Ecclesiastes 12:7.

What is the context, that this sentence has meaning?

Folk either self identify as the flesh or they self identify as the spirit.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to MissKate13 in post #1]

Indeed.

Misunderstandings galore.

I think this does partially from translators rendering so many different words ASB then English "hell". It would even be better to transliterate than to cause confusion in this way.

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #77]

Yes I think it would be fair to tell me, even if only so I don't think it's justified for me to punish him.

You were not the one raped. Your wife was. Why do you think it is justified that you should be the one to punish him?

Because that's what's fair. You do something wrong, you get punished. If he gets away with it, it's not fair to 1) her 2) me and 3) everyone else who wanted to rape but didn't.

Or the universe is not fair or unfair but just is what it is and you choose to behave fairly or not, within it.

This universe = spacetime and spacetime is not fundamental according to QM. There is nothing fundamental about this universe - in and of itself.

In order for the universe to be fair or unfair, it would have to be sentient. Are you saying the universe is able to act fairly/unfairly?

It might be sentient. It also might not be sentient and merely alive, seeking fairness as a part of some instinct it has to keep itself living. It's not impossible (though it doesn't seem to be the case in our universe) that the universe itself is neither alive nor sentient and some fundamental rules cause wrongdoers to get their comeuppance.

But if somebody already gave him his licks then not only don't I have to, but I shouldn't.

Q: What make you believe that you have the right and should be the one to punish him, in the first place?

In an unfair universe I have the right to do absolutely anything I want. If he can rape my wife and it's not wrong, then I can pull his guts out through his throat and it's not wrong.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #85]

You were not the one raped. Your wife was. Why do you think it is justified that you should be the one to punish him?

Because that's what's fair. You do something wrong, you get punished. If he gets away with it, it's not fair to 1) her 2) me and 3) everyone else who wanted to rape but didn't.

That didn't answer my actual question.

Why is it fair that you get to punish him? Wouldn't it be more fair that your wife was the one who got to punish her own rapist?

In order for the universe to be fair or unfair, it would have to be sentient. Are you saying the universe is able to act fairly/unfairly?

It might be sentient. It also might not be sentient and merely alive, seeking fairness as a part of some instinct it has to keep itself living. It's not impossible (though it doesn't seem to be the case in our universe) that the universe itself is neither alive nor sentient and some fundamental rules cause wrongdoers to get their comeuppance.

So we can place aside the universe as being fair or unfair, until such evidence comes along to support that it is.

Q: What make you believe that you have the right and should be the one to punish him, in the first place?

In an unfair universe I have the right to do absolutely anything I want. If he can rape my wife and it's not wrong, then I can pull his guts out through his throat and it's not wrong.

Are you still speaking from the point of view of having already died and being in a state of punishment yourself?

[Purple Knight]

Why is it fair that you get to punish him? Wouldn't it be more fair that your wife was the one who got to punish her own rapist?

No because it's still unfair to everyone who wanted to rape and didn't, if the rapist gets away with it. It's not just about her. It's also about the other people he'll rape if she lets him go. Fairness is about everyone. I'm not talking about morality, which I'm pretty sure says you can't just take revenge on people. But I think morality only exists with an authority, either god or something like god. Fairness is something anyone can ask for. He got a gold nugget for doing that thing, and all I did the same thing and got a cockroach egg? There may be some reason it's morally right but it's not fair.

In order for the universe to be fair or unfair, it would have to be sentient. Are you saying the universe is able to act fairly/unfairly?

So we can place aside the universe as being fair or unfair, until such evidence comes along to support that it is.

Well that's my point. Kind of. We don't know if we have to create fairness or if someone is already doing that. If we just assume everyone gets their just deserts no matter what we see, then no one ever will get their just deserts. And I don't think it's right to just let bad things happen to people when we don't have to, on the grounds that the universe might punish the wrongdoers later. What if it doesn't? What if the fairness we work for is the only fairness we'll ever get?

Q: What make you believe that you have the right and should be the one to punish him, in the first place?

In an unfair universe I have the right to do absolutely anything I want. If he can rape my wife and it's not wrong, then I can pull his guts out through his throat and it's not wrong.

Are you still speaking from the point of view of having already died and being in a state of punishment yourself?

It's a sad fact of life that none of us wants to be hurt, and the best way to achieve something close to nobody being hurt is to hurt people who hurt people until they stop. If you can still hurt others in the afterlife I don't picture it as being different.

But no, not really, I thought we were discussing an earthly life scenario.

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #87]

Are you still speaking from the point of view of having already died and being in a state of punishment yourself?

I thought we were discussing an earthly life scenario.

We had shifted to an afterlife scenario, remember?

Would your answers be different re that?

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #87]

Are you still speaking from the point of view of having already died and being in a state of punishment yourself?

I thought we were discussing an earthly life scenario.

We had shifted to an afterlife scenario, remember?

Would your answers be different re that?

The last time we were talking about the afterlife was post #74. I then agreed I don't deserve anything close to Heaven. Now, if what happens to others is withheld from me as part of the punishment, the main reason I think that's unfair (if I'm still alive or if I think I'm still alive) is that unless I know what's fair has already occurred, I will try to create fairness which will actually create unfairness if punishment was already given but that information was hidden from me.

If I know I'm dead then I assume I'm alone. But if I'm in Hell around a lot of other people, I will still try to create fairness. I explained why I think it's my right to do that. I am going to try to stop people from torturing me, or others. If I don't get to do that, then why do those people get to torture me, or others? If the whole reason I was sent to Hell is I hurt others, why do they get to do it now?

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #89]

I would like to focus on the idea that you are no longer in the physical universe reality, but in some after-that-life reality, where you told me that you would expect to be punished for things you did in your prior reality experience.

In that, - re fairness - I would like you to tell us what type of punishment you would expect to receive, and for how long you should be punished.

You have already said that you think it would be fair that you were told of the fate of the man who raped your wife.

You also stated that it would be fair to you if you were able to punish the rapist.

Do you think that you should be the one to punish the rapist in the next experience, or that you would be satisfied that fairness occurred by you simply being told that the he was punished?