The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1209]

If by literal kingdom you mean physical, there will never be a physical kingdom on earth, not now, not ever. It is a spiritual kingdom just as Jesus said.

“Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” (John 18:36)

I already answered your question. Isaiah 9:6 and 11:9 have been fulfilled. Go back and read what I wrote about Proverbs 2:21-22.

You wrote, “
Would it be fair to say that you believe this world where there is hunger, crime war, injustice, disease and so much human suffering is the fulfilment of the Messianic promises ? You believe that when Jesus taught us to pray that "God's will be done on earth", THIS (what humanity is presently experiencing} is that wonderful time, longed hoped for? Take a good long look at the picture below, and then tell me this is God's will for the earth.”

Kate’ response: I don’t believe, nor have I ever suggested that the evil you mentioned is a fulfillment of Messianic promises. Jesus never said life on earth would be utopian.

Your faith in a physical earthly kingdom is misplaced and is no different than the Jews who were looking for a physical king that would lead them in military battle and would free them from Roman subjection.

Acts 1:6
“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

But that is not what Jesus came to do. Instead Jesus came to be king of a spiritual kingdom. It is a spiritual battle Christians are fighting against the evils of this world, and Jesus, our King is leading us. This is why we are told to put on the whole armor of God, which is spiritual and not physical armor (Ephesians 6:10-20)

Luke 17:20-21
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1209]

If by literal kingdom you mean physical, there will never be a physical kingdom on earth,

If by "physical kingdom on earth" you mean God and Jesus can never reign OVER physical (the territory you are absolutely wrong. After all, if the kingdom cannot rule over anything physical , who do you think was king when the physical man Adam was living on the physical planet earth ?


Evidently, Gods dominion can cover physical flesh and blood subjects and God can reign over (ie his territory can include) the physical planet earth.

A kingdom cannot exist without the following four elements: a king, subjects, laws, and realm/territory.

The Future eternal Kingdom will be in heaven.

In the FUTURE what will be the four elements you refer to above?

[1] king,
[2] subjects,
[3] laws
[4] realm/territory

You may not want to acknowledge points #2 and #4 (even though you brought them up) but the bible is candid...

PSALM 72: 8 King James Bible

He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, MILLENIAL RULE and ...1914

[JehovahsWitness]

I don’t believe, nor have I ever suggested that the evil you mentioned is a fulfillment of Messianic promises. Jesus never said life on earth would be utopian.

But you believe that the Messianic promises are now being fulfilled ; thus the very best Jesus can do for the righteous, is allow wickedness to dominate this our planet earth. Agreed? For example ... You believe Jesus will never eliminate physical hunger from this our physical planet earth (correct me if I am wrong).



That's your "good news of the kingdom" ... that this baby is presently living under the fulfillment of the Messianic promises.

Do you not see either Jesus rule is sourly lacking or your interpretation must be deeply flawed?




JW

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1212]

No, my understanding is not flawed. I’ve provided you with many Scriptures showing the kingdom is spiritual, and is here now.

Jesus’ promises to His followers will be fulfilled in heaven.

Have you not forgotten what Jesus said about the poor? “For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good;…” (Matthew 14:7)

The prophecies which described the reign of Christ did not picture it as utopia, an era in which perfect peace would exist upon the earth. Rather, they foretold that Jesus would reign in the midst of His enemies.

Please tell me what you mean by literal kingdom? Do you mean an earthly physical kingdom such as David’s?

Jesus never intended to be the earthly king over a sovereign Israel. When Jesus declares that His kingdom is not of this world, Jesus is saying that His kingdom is in heaven.

The Messiah was to reign in Jerusalem. Which Jerusalem? According to Hebrews 12:22 and Galatians 4:26 there is also a Jerusalem in heaven.

Hebrews 12:22
“But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly.

”Galatians 4:26
“But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

The fact that Jesus rules at the right hand of the Father places the throne of the Messianic kingdom in heaven. The Messiah rules the earth from a heavenly, not an earthly throne.

Peter makes this fact clear in Acts 2:22-36. The fact that Jesus rules the world at the right hand of God in heaven is also indicated in Hebrews 8:1 and Revelation 3:21. This is why Jesus calls His kingdom the kingdom of heaven throughout the Gospels. The kingdom of heaven is the Messianic kingdom.

Man has been given the free will to choose or reject Jesus, to enter into His kingdom or not. Though Jesus is ruling over His kingdom now, He forces no one to enter into it. Remember what Jesus told Nicodemus.“Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.” (John 3:5). It is up to each individual to choose.

[JehovahsWitness]

MISS KATE SAYS

The prophecies which described the reign of Christ did not picture it as utopia, an era in which perfect peace would exist upon the earth.

THE BIBLE SAYS ....

PSALMS 37:10, 11

Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, and they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace

ISIAIAH 9:6b , 7

His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the increase of his rulership And to peace, there will be no end, On the throne of David and on his kingdom In order to establish it firmly and to sustain it Through justice and righteousness, From now on and forever.

PSALMS 72: 7

In his days the righteous will flourish and peace will abound until the moon is no more.

ISAIAH 11

They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the sea..

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, MILLENIAL RULE and ...1914

[JehovahsWitness]

...Jesus is ruling over His kingdom now, He forces no one to enter into it.

I notice you did not even acknowledge the images of starving children. I know you will never admit the reality that many innocent people are suffering under this world system because to do so means you will also have to admit your theology dictates that Christ will NEVER alleviate such suffering, even though he has the power to.



Does your theology teach that God will never intervene to eliminate hunger deprivation sickness, war, pollution and immense human suffering?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1216]

That is a heartbreaking image and starvation as got to stop. So far the 'kingdom inside people' has done nothing for that little boy and the millions of others that starve to death every year. I personally need to see something that is REAL and actually does something. I can't do it, people with 'the kingdom inside them' can't do it. If there was only someone here that could tell us from the Bible of a government that will do something...

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1216]

That is a heartbreaking image and starvation as got to stop. So far the 'kingdom inside people' has done nothing for that little boy and the millions of others that starve to death every year. I personally need to see something that is REAL and actually does something. I can't do it, people with 'the kingdom inside them' can't do it. If there was only someone here that could tell us from the Bible of a government that will do something...

I have to agree, and therein lies the real harm of the "the kingdom is in our hearts" theology not only does it lead to callous indifference of human suffering but it distracts from the simple but powerful message of hope.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1216]

See my post #1214. I did indeed address the photos of the children.

You haven’t addressed most of what I’ve written.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1216]

That is a heartbreaking image and starvation as got to stop. So far the 'kingdom inside people' has done nothing for that little boy and the millions of others that starve to death every year. I personally need to see something that is REAL and actually does something. I can't do it, people with 'the kingdom inside them' can't do it. If there was only someone here that could tell us from the Bible of a government that will do something...

I have to agree, and therein lies the real harm of the "the kingdom is in our hearts" theology not only does it lead to callous indifference of human suffering but it distracts from the simple but powerful message of hope.

There is much being done around the world to feed the poor. Christians are very generous, particularly here in the USA. I know the congregation I worship with is very involved with supporting children and others in our community. As individuals we do much to help the homeless.

Are you currently a practicing member of a church in your community? If not, you are missing a great opportunity to not only see the good works being done by Jesus’ kingdom people, but you could also make a big difference in helping the poor in your community.

Remember what Jesus said. The poor will always be with us. The kingdom is here, my friend. It is spiritual in nature, but its works can be seen throughout the world.