Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

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Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

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Post by Rational Atheist »

Here is a simple, yet powerful, argument against the idea that we 'freely' choose our actions.

1. Our thoughts determine our choices.

2. We do not freely choose our thoughts.

3. Therefore, our choices cannot be free.

I don't think anyone would object to premise 1, especially those who believe in free will, since by definition, a "free" choice, if it could exist, requires a person to consciously make it, which by definition involves thought. Premise 2 may be controversial to some, but with a simple thought experiment, it can be proven to be true. If a person could freely choose their thoughts, then they would have to be able to consciously choose what they were going to think before actually thinking it. In other words, there would have to be a time before a person thinks a thought that that thought was consciously chosen by a person, which literally entails the necessity of being able to think a thought before one thinks it. This, of course, is a logical contradiction. Ergo, free will does not exist.

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #311

Post by otseng »

Kylie wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:25 pm I have been abundantly clear and you seem to be intentionally obtuse. Do I need to draw a diagram? If so, I will use bright colours and small words so you can understand it. If you don't like it, then stop playing immature games like a child and answer the question.
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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #312

Post by JoeyKnothead »

William wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:51 pm No one said there wasn't either subjective or objective reality. What was said was that this universe that we call reality, is not fundamental reality...

That means that it cannot have created itself or otherwise be responsible for its own existence.
Now I get why folks say "fundamental" reality, and not just "reality". I offer what retractions in any threads my new understanding calls me to fix.

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #313

Post by OneWay »

Rational Atheist wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:18 pm Here is a simple, yet powerful, argument against the idea that we 'freely' choose our actions.

1. Our thoughts determine our choices.

They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #314

Post by JoeyKnothead »

OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:51 pm They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.
Is this some sort of ESP or such?

Of course the external can affect my thoughts, but it's me thinking em.
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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #315

Post by OneWay »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:10 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:51 pm They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.
Is this some sort of ESP or such?

Of course the external can affect my thoughts, but it's me thinking em.
Try to control your thoughts.
When you can't come back and tell me,
why you can't.

If they were your own thoughts,
then you would be able to think
the thoughts you want to think...
all the time.

But you can't. So you don't.
You think the thoughts that another source is
putting in your mind.

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #316

Post by JoeyKnothead »

OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:27 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:10 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:51 pm They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.
Is this some sort of ESP or such?

Of course the external can affect my thoughts, but it's me thinking em.
Try to control your thoughts.
When you can't come back and tell me,
why you can't.

If they were your own thoughts,
then you would be able to think
the thoughts you want to think...
all the time.

But you can't. So you don't.
You think the thoughts that another source is
putting in your mind.
Nice try tinfoil salesperson.

Seriously though, are you saying a specific entity is beaming waves into my brain? Or more generically, like when I think of some hot chick nekkid?
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #317

Post by OneWay »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:27 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:10 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:51 pm They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.
Is this some sort of ESP or such?

Of course the external can affect my thoughts, but it's me thinking em.
Try to control your thoughts.
When you can't come back and tell me,
why you can't.

If they were your own thoughts,
then you would be able to think
the thoughts you want to think...
all the time.

But you can't. So you don't.
You think the thoughts that another source is
putting in your mind.
Nice try tinfoil salesperson.

Seriously though, are you saying a specific entity is beaming waves into my brain? Or more generically, like when I think of some hot chick nekkid?
What do you mean nice try?
I am right. You do not control what thoughts come into your mind.

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #318

Post by JoeyKnothead »

OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:15 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:27 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:10 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:51 pm They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.
Is this some sort of ESP or such?

Of course the external can affect my thoughts, but it's me thinking em.
Try to control your thoughts.
When you can't come back and tell me,
why you can't.

If they were your own thoughts,
then you would be able to think
the thoughts you want to think...
all the time.

But you can't. So you don't.
You think the thoughts that another source is
putting in your mind.
Nice try tinfoil salesperson.

Seriously though, are you saying a specific entity is beaming waves into my brain? Or more generically, like when I think of some hot chick nekkid?
What do you mean nice try?
I am right. You do not control what thoughts come into your mind.
Meh. I can decide to think of me something else when it happens, but I can't too much fuss with your angle here.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #319

Post by OneWay »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:51 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:15 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:01 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:27 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:10 pm
OneWay wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:51 pm They are not your thoughts.
No one has their own thoughts.
They are put in your mind by another source.
Is this some sort of ESP or such?

Of course the external can affect my thoughts, but it's me thinking em.
Try to control your thoughts.
When you can't come back and tell me,
why you can't.

If they were your own thoughts,
then you would be able to think
the thoughts you want to think...
all the time.

But you can't. So you don't.
You think the thoughts that another source is
putting in your mind.
Nice try tinfoil salesperson.

Seriously though, are you saying a specific entity is beaming waves into my brain? Or more generically, like when I think of some hot chick nekkid?
What do you mean nice try?
I am right. You do not control what thoughts come into your mind.
Meh. I can decide to think of me something else when it happens,
No you can't, that is just an incontrollable reaction to a thought
due to the preceding thought put in your mind by another source other than you.

Like blinking your eyes.

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Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

Post #320

Post by JoeyKnothead »

OneWay wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:46 am
JK wrote: Meh. I can decide to think of me something else when it happens,
No you can't, that is just an incontrollable reaction to a thought
due to the preceding thought put in your mind by another source other than you.

Like blinking your eyes.
I'd caution folks against thinking this is some kinda deep, life changing knowledge before they fetch off to join the nunnery.

Further caution is warranted regarding this "another source", as well. Unless one can show whom or what that source is, it's fair to say normal brainial processes are at play.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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