Who are the "groomers"?

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Jose Fly
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Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by Jose Fly »

On Sunday, a report summarizing an independent investigation into sexual abuse in US Southern Baptist churches was released. The investigation uncovered some very disturbing details:
1. Top leaders repeatedly tried to bury sex abuse claims and lied about what they could do

The report describes how key Southern Baptist leaders engaged in a pattern of ignoring, stonewalling and even “vilifying” sex abuse survivors. The report details multiple instances when Southern Baptist leaders shot down requests by survivors and other concerned members to maintain a database of abusers. Publicly, the leaders said they couldn’t because of “church polity,” or the denomination’s decentralized structure. But the report found that their attorneys had advised them that they could keep such a list and that the leaders did so in secret.

2. A former SBC president was considered “credibly accused” of sexual assault

3. Unheeded warnings went on for decades

The report also described a series of instances when leaders ignored warnings by sex abuse survivors and advocates. In 2016, a person called to report a pastor’s involvement in abuse of her mother. According to the report, a staff member for the Executive Committee asked Boto, “Do I call this lady back? I suspect no.” No documents indicate a follow-up response, the report said.

4. Leaders seemed to put concern over potential litigation over people’s safety

Southern Baptist leaders appeared to value avoiding lawsuits over preventing sexual abuse, according to the report, which stated, “it is striking that many reform efforts were met with resistance, typically due to concerns over incurring legal liability.” For example, based on outside counsel, leaders recommended removing the word “crisis” when referring to sex abuse.
When we put this together with similar problems in the Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormon Church, it's quite apparent that US Christianity has a widespread and long-running problem with sexual abuse and covering it up.

As horrific as all that is, it's particularly galling given recent efforts by Christians across the US to paint LGBTQs as either abusers themselves or "groomers" (people who manipulate and prepare victims for abuse). From they way they tell it, transgender people are constantly lurking in bathrooms, ready to assault unsuspecting children and women, and LGBTQ teachers and school officials are "grooming" students to become future victims. From that hateful and bigoted position they seek to use the force of government to relegate LGBTQs to second-class status.

Yet in reality, children are at far greater risk from being abused in Christian settings! And when that becomes apparent, Christians take deliberate steps to not only cover it up, but demonize the victims and protect the abusers!

So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #51

Post by Jose Fly »

oldbadger wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:04 am
Jose Fly wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:08 pm That info wasn't in the article, so I don't know.
Well that's important, surely?

There may well be some convictions, but a trial can be reported and exact details be discovered. Thing is, we don't know if 16 allegations were made against one person and single claims against the other three. etc etc.......

The cases need to be heard.
Of course. I don't recall anyone saying otherwise.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #52

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Former Texas student minister gets five years in guilty sex abuse plea

HOUSTON (BP) — A former Southern Baptist student minister has been sentenced to five years in prison after pleading guilty to four charges related to online sexual abuse of a minor, Harris County Criminal Court records show.

Timothy Jason Jeltema, 31, pleaded guilty Nov. 17 to two counts of online solicitation of a minor, one charge of indecency with a child and one charge of sexual performance by a child.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #53

Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:52 pm Former Texas student minister gets five years in guilty sex abuse plea

HOUSTON (BP) — A former Southern Baptist student minister has been sentenced to five years in prison after pleading guilty to four charges related to online sexual abuse of a minor, Harris County Criminal Court records show.

Timothy Jason Jeltema, 31, pleaded guilty Nov. 17 to two counts of online solicitation of a minor, one charge of indecency with a child and one charge of sexual performance by a child.
....deserves to be in prison, where he might, just might get help to change his life around.

Now that was a really interesting case and I'll tell you why.
It got me thinking about your choice of detainees and sexual offence convicts.
So I thought to myself, 'Nearly every walk of life must have it's % of sexual offenders....child sexual offenders.'
And so I decided to select a group of people at random to see if it contained such folks.
'Postman'!! I thought. So I googled 'Child sex offender convicted...postman' and sent it off to search.
A page of recent cases jumped on to my screen and so I copy/pasted the first one on to this post.
This one was caught in Manchester, England, so maybe you might think that Manchester is a bed of wickedness or something?

You gotta watch them posties, you know. Wicked bunch, that lot.
NOT!!! :D


Depraved postman jailed for five years for repeatedly sexually ...https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk › ... › Stockport
27 Nov 2017 — A postman who repeatedly sexually assaulted a child has been jailed for five years. Alec Heaps, 53, from Stockport, was found guilty by a ...

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #54

Post by Jose Fly »

oldbadger wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:00 am
Jose Fly wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:52 pm Former Texas student minister gets five years in guilty sex abuse plea

HOUSTON (BP) — A former Southern Baptist student minister has been sentenced to five years in prison after pleading guilty to four charges related to online sexual abuse of a minor, Harris County Criminal Court records show.

Timothy Jason Jeltema, 31, pleaded guilty Nov. 17 to two counts of online solicitation of a minor, one charge of indecency with a child and one charge of sexual performance by a child.
....deserves to be in prison, where he might, just might get help to change his life around.

Now that was a really interesting case and I'll tell you why.
It got me thinking about your choice of detainees and sexual offence convicts.
So I thought to myself, 'Nearly every walk of life must have it's % of sexual offenders....child sexual offenders.'
And so I decided to select a group of people at random to see if it contained such folks.
'Postman'!! I thought. So I googled 'Child sex offender convicted...postman' and sent it off to search.
A page of recent cases jumped on to my screen and so I copy/pasted the first one on to this post.
This one was caught in Manchester, England, so maybe you might think that Manchester is a bed of wickedness or something?

You gotta watch them posties, you know. Wicked bunch, that lot.
NOT!!! :D


Depraved postman jailed for five years for repeatedly sexually ...https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk › ... › Stockport
27 Nov 2017 — A postman who repeatedly sexually assaulted a child has been jailed for five years. Alec Heaps, 53, from Stockport, was found guilty by a ...
The difference (relevant to this thread) is that postmen aren't conducting a hate campaign against others in which they refer to them as "groomers". That's the point here....the hate from conservative Christians combined with their hypocrisy.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #55

Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:26 pm
The difference (relevant to this thread) is that postmen aren't conducting a hate campaign against others in which they refer to them as "groomers". That's the point here....the hate from conservative Christians combined with their hypocrisy.
Jose Fly wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:26 pm
The difference (relevant to this thread) is that postmen aren't conducting a hate campaign against others in which they refer to them as "groomers". That's the point here....the hate from conservative Christians combined with their hypocrisy.
So you can use my technique in a way which is relevant to this thread.
You mention that Conservative Christians are being hypocritical, so you could redirect such a search as mine in to searching for Conservative Christians convicted for child sex offences, and let google fill a few pages of that enquiry for you. Better still, if you happen to know what Christian group, creed or church these particular Christians might belong to you can search for priests in that group with dodgy criminal records.
I don't want to pick on a particular church but for the purposes of this search I need to, but I have selected this at random......
Let's say a Church of England Conservative Christian is ranting about Child sex offenders, so we could seek out 'Vicar convicted of sexual offences'....off we go.....
Oh My Goodness Gracious......! Oh dear! Pages of naughty 'Vicars'...just 'Vicars' mind you, convicted of child sex offences...... You'll need counselling if you read this lot. I'll pop one up from so many, from in the middle of the first page to shock you with. And I didn't search for pastors, deacons, priests, etc etc...just vicars.
And so any C of E Christians who might be ranting about any LGBT folks would first need to review their church's record.

Darlington vicar jailed for third time for historical sex offenceshttps://www.bbc.co.uk › uk-england-tees-63747194
7 days ago — A retired archdeacon has been jailed for a third time after being convicted of sexual abuse in the 1970s. George Granville Gibson, 86

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #56

Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:26 pm The difference (relevant to this thread) is that postmen aren't conducting a hate campaign against others in which they refer to them as "groomers". That's the point here....the hate from conservative Christians combined with their hypocrisy.
But the difference here is that Christians are NOT conducting a hate campaign against others......... you have started a thread against Churches because of what some of their members or priests have done. This works both ways....... So if any member discovers your background, past work, memberships etc they could ask google for any news about your groups, etc........ both ways. :)

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #57

Post by Jose Fly »

oldbadger wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:08 am But the difference here is that Christians are NOT conducting a hate campaign against others.
Um....yes they are. Maybe it's not so bad over in England, but here in the US it's horrible and is having very real consequences for people in the queer community. The current line of attack is to label LGBTQs as pedophiles who "groom" children for sexual abuse.

Of course as you note in your earlier post, if the haters really were concerned about protecting children, they'd clean up the persistent and widespread child abuse problems in their own houses. But this isn't about protecting kids; it's about hate.....something conservative Christians have engaged in since....well....forever.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

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Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:23 pm Um....yes they are. Maybe it's not so bad over in England, but here in the US it's horrible and is having very real consequences for people in the queer community. The current line of attack is to label LGBTQs as pedophiles who "groom" children for sexual abuse.

Of course as you note in your earlier post, if the haters really were concerned about protecting children, they'd clean up the persistent and widespread child abuse problems in their own houses. But this isn't about protecting kids; it's about hate.....something conservative Christians have engaged in since....well....forever.
It's people, Jose...... people.
If you happen to frequent strong forums dedicated to atheists then you'll know that some of the members have so much hatred for any Christians and other religions, call them insulting names, spread news of each and every sex-crime case against church leaders (quite a few) ........ it's like the right/left thing that I read about so much. And the bigotry seems to be spread fairly evenly.

All I do is offer an alternative viewpoint to those who seek to contaminate all LGBT folks, most who are perfectly decent people, or those who seek to trash all church leaders, and it's very easy because all one has to do is ask jolly old google for news; I haven't research sex crimes in taxi drivers, nor laboratory technicians but you can bet your mobile that the results would be 'juicy'. ;)

I think I'll try a search on window cleaners...ouch! I guess that was fairly obvious. O:)

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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #59

Post by Jose Fly »

oldbadger wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:28 am It's people, Jose...... people.
If you happen to frequent strong forums dedicated to atheists then you'll know that some of the members have so much hatred for any Christians and other religions, call them insulting names, spread news of each and every sex-crime case against church leaders (quite a few) ........ it's like the right/left thing that I read about so much. And the bigotry seems to be spread fairly evenly.
I'm not talking about what goes on in internet forums. I'm talking about organized and well-funded hate campaigns by Christian groups, demonization of LGBTQs by right-wing media outlets, and how the Republican Party has embraced it all.
All I do is offer an alternative viewpoint to those who seek to contaminate all LGBT folks, most who are perfectly decent people, or those who seek to trash all church leaders, and it's very easy because all one has to do is ask jolly old google for news; I haven't research sex crimes in taxi drivers, nor laboratory technicians but you can bet your mobile that the results would be 'juicy'. ;)

I think I'll try a search on window cleaners...ouch! I guess that was fairly obvious. O:)
Again, I'm guessing you may not be fully aware of just how bad it's gotten here in the US. We have Republican governors signing laws that make it illegal to even teach school kids that LGBTQ people exist, with their spokespeople specifically citing concerns about "grooming" as the reason. We have librarians and teachers resigning en masse after being harassed and subjected to death threats merely for having books written by LGBTQs available and/or being supportive of LGBTQ students. We have right-wing Christians showing up at pride events with the express intent of starting riots.

I could go on and on, but the point remains.....the Christian right in the US has been, and continues to engage in a widespread violent hate campaign against the queer community, with their primary justification being that LGBTQs are pedophiles who "groom" kids for abuse. The intent of this thread is to make the point that if those folks really were concerned about protecting kids from sexual abuse, they'd focus on the documented abuse and grooming that's been going on in Christian settings for decades. But of course, it isn't really about protecting kids...it's simply about hate.
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Re: Who are the "groomers"?

Post #60

Post by oldbadger »

Jose Fly wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:05 pm I'm not talking about what goes on in internet forums. I'm talking about organized and well-funded hate campaigns by Christian groups, demonization of LGBTQs by right-wing media outlets, and how the Republican Party has embraced it all.

Again, I'm guessing you may not be fully aware of just how bad it's gotten here in the US. We have Republican governors signing laws that make it illegal to even teach school kids that LGBTQ people exist, with their spokespeople specifically citing concerns about "grooming" as the reason. We have librarians and teachers resigning en masse after being harassed and subjected to death threats merely for having books written by LGBTQs available and/or being supportive of LGBTQ students. We have right-wing Christians showing up at pride events with the express intent of starting riots.

I could go on and on, but the point remains.....the Christian right in the US has been, and continues to engage in a widespread violent hate campaign against the queer community, with their primary justification being that LGBTQs are pedophiles who "groom" kids for abuse. The intent of this thread is to make the point that if those folks really were concerned about protecting kids from sexual abuse, they'd focus on the documented abuse and grooming that's been going on in Christian settings for decades. But of course, it isn't really about protecting kids...it's simply about hate.
Yes...... That's right, so many right wingers who claim to be Christians highlight every possible case of pedophilia caused by LGBT folks in order to pump truth pills in to their horrific propaganda campaign.

And so it looks as if you, wherever you happen to be on the US political spectrum, would like to highlight every possible case of pedophilia caused by religious folks in order to chuck stuff in the other direction, as if that's going to actually make a huge difference to the situation.

They believe in and hold a few selected OT laws (enforced by Paul... quite a joke imo) and want to pump their bigotry in to their babies about gays, lesbians, trans-sexuals, transvestites etc ........and you believe (like I do) in gender freedom and love/sexual freedom for all and want school lesson plans to send that message to pupils.

I've got it. But all that fails miserably because there are hundreds of different churches, creeds, followings and any case you find can probably be pushed under the bed because 'That one wasn't one of us, not a true Christian, like us'.......

I think you need to take some different route. In the meantime I like to seek out sex crime convictions in airline pilots, or quantity surveyors, whatever!........ because that's actually more fun, just as useless, and I hope that both religious bigotry might die as Christianity seems to be dying, slowly but all on it's own.

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