Are you a creationist?

[Wootah]

Hi all,

The thing about creation is that we do it every moment.

- I look at a lump of matter and make it into my wife every day of my marriage.

- Apparently, there is a bunch of atoms that I recognise every day how to get back to and I call it my home.

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Wootah in post #69]

Because it's not the one you were trying to make. Not so far as I could see. Look at the OP. It is pointing to the act of creation by humans, sure, nobody denied that, but it does not validate the label 'creationist' meaning 'one who believes in the act of creation'. Which is not the same as 'one who believes in the act of creation by God or 'as in the Bible'. The point he made was not the point in the op and is not actually relevant.

[JoeyKnothead]

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

I do agree with this. But at the same time I disagree.

I'm a cat breeder. I tend my cats carefully, I treat them well, look after them, take them to the vet when sick, and yes, when I produce an exceptional individual of my breed, I say proudly, "I made that."

But I don't think I snapped my fingers and made matter where there was not matter before. That would make me just as crazy as the fellow who scoffs at my ribbon and says I did nothing.

I also don't think I can dictate morality for the beings I create. If they ever become morally self-aware and they think something is wrong, I can't tell them it's right. I can punish them for behaviour I don't like or even remove balls off of cats who spray and deny them reproductive success and give them pet homes, but it is NOT the same thing. Spraying is not morally wrong just because it causes damage to my house. It just causes damage to my house and won't be allowed in my house.

Proof I believe this: I've said as much.

Why are we assuming that the universe - the allstuff I'll call it, that everything is made up of - originated at all?

We don't see things originate, we see them change. If I obtain a litter of kittens, there is not more allstuff than there was yesterday, it's just, more of it is making up things we call kittens. Causality is needed for why there are more kittens. It doesn't apply to the allstuff.

I agree all that. Yes, humans make things, we 'Create', physically, mentally or both, or as you say, morally. But that is a different kind of creation from Cosmic origins, nuclear power and 'naming' - shall we say? sub - atomic particles. But I get the feeling I missed what the argument was really about. I thought it was about being able to 'create' things made humans Creator, yes, but that did not make us Creationists, (in any regular usage of the term) nor did it make everyone 'creationists' (as I recall was the OP). It looked to me like an equivocation fallacy designed to make 'Creationism' accepted as fact by foisting the term on things it had nothing to do with.

Ok. How come Transponder can see through smoke?

[Wootah]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #72]

He was actually forced to be thoughtful.

I think being called a creationist was triggering.

I am open to a more neutral term.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #72]

He was actually forced to be thoughtful.

I think being called a creationist was triggering.

I am open to a more neutral term.

Any point that makes me think 'forces me to be thoughtful' and any point that makes me think 'Hey I've gotta put in my 2 c worth' could be called 'triggerring'. But I don't lose my cool, Not even when (as sometimes happens) our intelligence is insulted or (as also sometimes seems to happen) someone is just needling an atheist for Jesus.

Bottom line, someone posting rubbish at atheists is good for atheists and bad for them, so we love it.

More neutral term? Think what you mean and look online for the term in the dictionary. That's what they are there for. We don't need to make up new words unless we have new meanings.

Humung beans are Creators, yes, 'Creationists' is a different meaning. And applying 'Creationist' to someone who believes that humans can create things is best avoided because it is not needed as nobody does NOT believe that humans can create, and it causes confusion with a believer that a God creates, which is a different thing and is disputed..

Burn that board, chop that desk; this one is going nowhere.

Ok. How come Transponder can see through smoke?
[/quote]


X-ray eyes. Ladies, get your lead - lined underwear online, unbeatable prices.

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #72]

He was actually forced to be thoughtful.

I think being called a creationist was triggering.

I am open to a more neutral term.

I just gotta tell it, I don't think Transponder needs to do too much thought to see through the smoke.

Rational. Rational is a more neutral term when speaking of the atheist position on creationism.

[Difflugia]

I think being called a creationist was triggering.

It's equivocation-as-argument that triggers me.

[Wootah]

I think being called a creationist was triggering.

It's equivocation-as-argument that triggers me.

Maybe you have never really considered the term?

The post reflects, for me, a really eye-opening understanding of the world that I have recently had and wanted to share.

We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

It's why I don't believe there are atheists. No one can truly hold that view and I certainly don't think any atheists on this site really drink that cup to the full. I tried. Once. A long time ago.

[TRANSPONDER]

I think being called a creationist was triggering.

It's equivocation-as-argument that triggers me.

Maybe you have never really considered the term?

The post reflects, for me, a really eye-opening understanding of the world that I have recently had and wanted to share.

We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

It's why I don't believe there are atheists. No one can truly hold that view and I certainly don't think any atheists on this site really drink that cup to the full. I tried. Once. A long time ago.

By all means, share it. Any new or different view of the world, our condition or indeed the subject (debating Christianity and religion) is welcome, even if it turns out that the new view was unsound or unhelpful. I've had a few views of mine put under the hammer in my time, and I've learned a lot.

You have something to learn about how an atheist sees things. We can understand how a believer thinks an atheist life has to be. It isn't. You probably wouldn't understand even if you believed me but trust me, it isn't like the way you see it.

[Tcg]

We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

Nope. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods.

It's why I don't believe there are atheists. No one can truly hold that view and I certainly don't think any atheists on this site really drink that cup to the full. I tried. Once. A long time ago.

Wrong again. I am an atheist and there are a whole bunch of us.


Tcg

[brunumb]

We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

It can actually be atheism at both ends because none of it requires any gods.

That said, we can still find purpose and meaning within our brief journey out of oblivion and back into it.