The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #1229]

I agree with you myth-one.

[2ndpillar2]

The "kingdom" is after Israel/Ephraim (the lost 10 tribes of Israel) is gathered out of the nations (EZ 36:24) after they were "scattered" "among the nations/Gentiles" (Ez 36:19) and then joined to the house of Judah under the kingship of David, on the land given to Jacob (EZ 37:16-28). This all happens after the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) whereas those in Jerusalem (Jews) and those on Mount Zion (those who keep the Commandments) will be delivered/"escape". The "Day of the LORD", God's judgment, is Har-Magedon, which remains in the future, and introduces the millennium, whereas the devil, the "ruler of the world" is chained/bound for 1000 years (Rev 20:1-2). As for Luke, he was a part time historian, who witnessed nothing. A first hand message would have been from Matthew 10:6-8, and the "kingdom" is power and spirit, something the daughters of Babylon remain without, and their "fat shepherds" are facing "destruction" because they do not feed nor heal the sheep (Ez 34:16-25)

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1228]

I asked for two so we could discuss them at length. I don’t know about you but trying to discuss a whole lot of Scriptures in one post can be overwhelming, for me anyway.

SCRIPTURE #1 DANIEL 2:44 : post #1195 also presented by TIM in post #1225

• How can the kingdom merely be a feeling in the hearts of believers if it eliminates and replaces all human governments?

SCRIPTURE #2 MATTHEW 6 :10 post #1195

• Since Jesus said the kingdom will ensure the earth eventually enjoys the same destiny as heaven, how can the fulfillment of this allow for Satanic rule, death, hunger and human suffering ?
  
  
  
  JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
  
  
  

  To learn more please go to other posts related to...
  
  GOD'S KINGDOM, MILLENIAL RULE and ...1914

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1233]

Thank you JehovahsWitness. There is a lot of meat in both passages to discuss. I may only have time to address the first one. Later today, I’ll do my best to talk about the second.

You asked:
DANIEL 2:44
How can the kingdom merely be a feeling in the hearts of believers if it eliminates and replaces all human governments?

My response: I’m not sure where you got the idea that the kingdom is “merely a feeling in the hearts of men.” I did not say it, nor do I believe it. I am not accountable for what someone else may have said.

Being in the kingdom of Jesus is not based on feelings/emotion. It is based on knowledge that comes from Scripture.

First and foremost, we know the kingdom is here now (Col 1:13, Rev. 1:9, Hebrews 12:28, 1 Thess 2:12, Luke 11:20, 2 Thess 1:5) We know that Christ is reigning over His kingdom (1 Cor 15:25). To deny its presence is to deny the word of YHWH.

Second, we know from Jesus’ very own words that the kingdom He spoke of is spiritual, not physical (John 18:36; Luke 17:20-21) And from Paul (Rom 14:17). To deny its spiritual nature is to deny the words of our Savior as well as Paul’s whom the Holy Spirit spoke through.

Can you point to a post where I wrote “the kingdom eliminates and replaces all human governments?” I ask that you please not put words in my mouth or assume to know what I think. Stick to the facts, and don’t assume.


You claimed that numerous scriptures speak of an idyllic earth with no suffering (a return to the paradise garden conditions Adam and Eve originally enjoyed on this planet earth in the flesh) ...

I asked you to quote two of your favorites passages that say what you’ve claimed above so we can discuss them.

You chose Daniel 2:44 for one of your two quotes.

44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

What exactly in this passage speaks of an idyllic earth with no suffering (a return to the paradise garden conditions Adam and Eve originally enjoyed on this planet earth in the flesh)?

My goodness! You certainly are reading a lot into this verse that it doesn’t say, nor even hints at.

What is does say is the kingdom will never be destroyed. It won’t be inherited by any other people. It says it will break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it will stand forever.

The prophecy does not indicate that the end result (breaking in pieces and consuming these kingdoms) would be immediate. It does not say it would be accomplished in one day, or that the establishment of Jesus’ kingdom would overthrow all governments immediately. It does not say that it would conquer in the same way earthly kingdoms conquer one another.

There is not one word about an idyllic earth.












SCRIPTURE #2 MATTHEW 6 :10 post #1195
Since Jesus said the kingdom will ensure the earth eventually enjoys the same destiny as heaven, how can the fulfillment of this allow for Satanic rule, death, hunger and human suffering ?

[onewithhim]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

Two type of bodies are defined in the Bible -- natural and spiritual.

Likewise, there are two different worlds or kingdoms -- the natural (or physical) world and the spiritual world.

Mankind is restricted to life in the physical world.

Spirits are unrestricted.

God is a Spirit and existed from the beginning -- so the Kingdom of God has always existed and will exist forever as spirits are immortal.

You continue to ignore all those scriptures that JehovahsWitness included in the post above. Daniel 2:44 says that God WILL (future tense) set up a kingdom that will crush and put an end to all of mankind's kingdoms. Mankind's governments are still operating.

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal. Satan and his demons are destined to be destroyed, to be obliterated forever. That is what the Lake of Fire means. I Timothy 6:16 states clearly that Jesus alone had immortality, when that scripture was written. Therefore, other spirits did not have immortality.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1228]

I asked for two so we could discuss them at length. I don’t know about you but trying to discuss a whole lot of Scriptures in one post can be overwhelming, for me anyway. So if you’d like to give me a couple, great. If not, I’ll move on.

Jehovah'sWitness offers you many Scriptures to prove that a paradise earth is coming, which you said you wanted proof of. Yet you find fault in that. Darned if we do, darned if we don't, as they say. Then, two scriptures have subsequently been provided, since you asked for just two, by JehovahsWitness. You aren't able to see that Daniel 2:44 tells of the kingdom getting rid of mankind's governments, when it states that very thing? Please give some more thought to what you learn from that scripture, and though not commenting on them right away, because you are overwhelmed, go over the others that JW has given you. It is very clear that a paradise Earth is to be a reality, with God's own kingdom (government) ruling over it.

[JehovahsWitness]

What is does say is the kingdom will never be destroyed. It won’t be inherited by any other people. It says it will break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it will stand forever.

Okay, so ....

1. Daniel 2 verse 44 speaks of a kingdom set up by God, what *is* that kingdom?

2. What are "these kingdoms" that the verse also refer to?

You want to analyse in depth, lets get started ! Answer the 2 questions above. (More questions to follow).

[myth-one.com]

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal.

God is a spirit.

Is God imortal?

[OneWay]

3. The world will be destroyed.

Do you mean the planet earth? If God destroys the earth how can he rule over it forever?

How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?

That is a cop-out. Just answer the questions.

People who demand that to which themselves will not or do not do are hypocrites.

[OneWay]

3. The world will be destroyed.

Do you mean the planet earth? If God destroys the earth how can he rule over it forever?

How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?

Including lie?


See edit above.

If it were not possible for God to lie then
it would be a lie to say all things are possible to God.

Oh wait a minute

All things are possible to God.

How come you do not believe all things are possible to God?

That's just it----ALL things are not possible to God. See my post above.

Name one thing that is not possible to God.