Are you a creationist?

[Wootah]

Hi all,

The thing about creation is that we do it every moment.

- I look at a lump of matter and make it into my wife every day of my marriage.

- Apparently, there is a bunch of atoms that I recognise every day how to get back to and I call it my home.

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

[Wootah]

Fwiw the Bible indicates a lot of the evil we do is because we think the landlord is away. It basically says that we killed Jesus, the landlord's son because we thought we could get the vineyard.

What I find most evil is folks declaring they know the thoughts of a god they can't show exists to even have a thought.

It's nothing more'n an attempt to declare divine authority in one's own opinion.

Sorry Joey the bible is not authoritative in the forum. Please don't use it that way.

But you may recall from normal life that kids muck up more when no one is watching. We can see a general principle in life, 'when the cats away the mice will play' scaling up into a parable in the Bible.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #88]

I think in general people on a debating Christianity website are interested when their thoughts connect with Bible accidentally or not.

That doesn't address the question I asked. Why should anyone care what the bible says?

How does the support your assertion that humans are creationists?

Yes, I am concerned it might digress too far from the topic.

But to bring it back, imagine a group of people working some random plants and creating a garden and then calling it a vineyard and making wine from the grapes to drink as wine for different social occasions. Seems pretty creationist to me.

Creationist is a term used to describe folks who believe a creator is responsible for the universe and the life (what little there is) in it. It has nothing to do with making wine.


Tcg

[Wootah]

[Replying to Tcg in post #92]

I don't know how to interact with your post further.

W: I think in general people on a debating Christianity website are interested when their thoughts connect with Bible accidentally or not.
T: That doesn't address the question I asked. Why should anyone care what the bible says?
W: I think in general people on a debating Christianity website are interested when their thoughts connect with Bible accidentally or not.
T: That doesn't address the question I asked. Why should anyone care what the bible says?
...

Creationist is a term used to describe folks who believe a creator is responsible for the universe and the life (what little there is) in it. It has nothing to do with making wine.

Maybe you should read this thread to see how it might: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40098

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #92]

W: I think in general people on a debating Christianity website are interested when their thoughts connect with Bible accidentally or not.
T: That doesn't address the question I asked. Why should anyone care what the bible says?
...

Your reply represents a hunch on your part not an answer to the question I asked.

Creationist is a term used to describe folks who believe a creator is responsible for the universe and the life (what little there is) in it. It has nothing to do with making wine.

Maybe you should read this thread to see how it might: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40098

No need. I already know what the term "creationist" means.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

Fwiw the Bible indicates a lot of the evil we do is because we think the landlord is away. It basically says that we killed Jesus, the landlord's son because we thought we could get the vineyard.

What I find most evil is folks declaring they know the thoughts of a god they can't show exists to even have a thought.

It's nothing more'n an attempt to declare divine authority in one's own opinion.

Sorry Joey the bible is not authoritative in the forum. Please don't use it that way.

Lol

How you got from me explicitly explaining how the bible ain't authoritative, to thinking I used it as authoritative, is sound indication of the faulty reasoning of so many theists.

But you may recall from normal life that kids muck up more when no one is watching. We can see a general principle in life, 'when the cats away the mice will play' scaling up into a parable in the Bible.

Now we've gone from "evil" to "mucking up". I consider that an improvement.

[OneWay]

Hi all,

The thing about creation is that we do it every moment.

- I look at a lump of matter and make it into my wife every day of my marriage.

- Apparently, there is a bunch of atoms that I recognise every day how to get back to and I call it my home.

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

You created nothing and neither did anyone else.
Whatever your eyes see, has already been created before you saw them.
Therefore you did not create them.

[TRANSPONDER]

....

There was another one who insisted that religions were organisations and because atheism was an organisation (with priests, (Dawkins) Holy Books (Origin of species) and religious events (any meet -up) atheism was a religion. Last I saw he was chopping up his drawing - board.

The way I think is best to address attempts to define me into being religious is not to care. When someone draws lines around groups that believe this, groups that believe that, and makes me jump because I want to be inside the category that is called atheism, that's when I have become religious. It's precisely because I'm not religious that I don't care if you draw lines around my beliefs and categorise the beliefs inside as religious ones. I will sit on my beliefs and not jump away from them because of what someone calls them.

Oh, you've come up with a definition of religious that makes me religious? Okay, sure, if it's a useful one I even accept it. I actually have every practical reason to accept it because if you can get everyone to accept it, the First Amendment now protects me and I suddenly have loads of rights I didn't have before.

However I'm not going to jump away from my beliefs because some priest says to. If Dawkins suddenly declares that Jesus Christ is salvation, then to heck with him. I have no faith in him. I don't obey him. I don't think he is holy. And this is why I think there's an important distinction and why I don't see it as the same thing religious people do.

I'm sure that nobody wants to force a category on you that you don't think appropriate. At the same time, a person who does not believe in any gods is an atheist, whether they like the monicker or not. Bottom line is, meanings before labels. You tell us what you believe and I'll try to suggest a correct label, but it's for you to tell us what you think, not us to tell you. And yes, Dawkins is no icon or atheist Pope. I've disagreed with him about things and agreed about others. There is no Dogma that enjoins atheists to applaud everything he says, on pain of having our party cars and access to the atheist canteen and drinks bar revoked.

I don't think that was the problem, O Purple sir, not what it was to create, or what was not.The word applies, correctly to the idea whether we actually did it or not. The problem, and the apparent equivocation, it seemed to me, was that because we humans created things, or were aware of the act or creating things, that made us believers in the act of creation by humans and thus we were creationists.

The word Creationism means something different. And that was the equivocation and the fallacy.

I'm not convinced they do mean something different. In fact I'm rather convinced that people who are merely shaping things actually think they are creating things and there's a genuine understanding gap there for enough of the populace that the definition - the way the word is rightly used - is genuinely following that gap, and thus absorbing that flaw.

There have been so few people with the understanding that these things are different that not only have their words have been seen as exceptional, but the man himself seems to be saying he did little to nothing - that the statue of David was always there.
The sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material.

In any case there is still a case in the OP. We accept that intelligence can create (here meaning shape things into creations). So we accept at least that the universe, or at least some bits of it, may have been shaped. It's weaker but there's still a case.[/quote]

I don't deny Creation by humans either before they start sculpting or after. In fact the idea in a piece of work is generally conceived before the work starts.

It is applying the term 'Creationism' to that seems inappropriate, even to others believing that is what we do. Creationism is the belief that a god (name your own) created everything. Believing that humans make things and even create the idea before starting work is really undeniable and we don't need a dogma about it. Even if we did, we'd need to distinguish God -creationism from human creationism so as to avoid confusion.

As to the universe, 'shaped', yes, but 'Design' in nature is accepted. The question is, can natural design account for it or is intelligent design more probable? Natural design is often explainable and there is no really valid case for intelligent design, so natural creation is the adequate theory and there is no need to postulate a god, gaps for god,of course not being evidence either way.

[Wootah]

Hi all,

The thing about creation is that we do it every moment.

- I look at a lump of matter and make it into my wife every day of my marriage.

- Apparently, there is a bunch of atoms that I recognise every day how to get back to and I call it my home.

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

You created nothing and neither did anyone else.
Whatever your eyes see, has already been created before you saw them.
Therefore you did not create them.

What did you see? Was it a tree or some wood or a chair? How did you see the chair?

[OneWay]

Hi all,

The thing about creation is that we do it every moment.

- I look at a lump of matter and make it into my wife every day of my marriage.

- Apparently, there is a bunch of atoms that I recognise every day how to get back to and I call it my home.

The day you are not a creationist, you likely have lost your mind.

Are you a creationist? Thoughts?

You created nothing and neither did anyone else.
Whatever your eyes see, has already been created before you saw them.
Therefore you did not create them.

What did you see? Was it a tree or some wood or a chair? How did you see the chair?

I saw it because it was created before I saw them.
Whatever it is, wood, glass, whatever, it was already in existence before I saw it.

[Purple Knight]

The Parable of the Tenants
And he began to speak to them in parables. “A man planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a pit for the winepress and built a tower, and leased it to tenants and went into another country. When the season came, he sent a servant[a] to the tenants to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Again he sent to them another servant, and they struck him on the head and treated him shamefully. And he sent another, and him they killed. And so with many others: some they beat, and some they killed. He had still one other, a beloved son. Finally he sent him to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ And they took him and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard. What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants and give the vineyard to others. Have you not read this Scripture:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”

And they were seeking to arrest him but feared the people, for they perceived that he had told the parable against them. So they left him and went away.

I think a lot of the evil in the world is done because people think no one is watching.

Sometimes we do good because we think the landlord is away, too. The landlord wants this. The landlord wants that. If I imagine there's a landlord when there's not one, maybe that's for the best. I admit that I'm more careful about keeping a place clean if I don't think it's mine. In a way this makes me a lot worse than those nasty men in the parable trying to steal a vineyard.