The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

You asked: What are "these kingdoms" that the verse also refer to?

My response: They are earthly kingdoms.

What do you mean by "earthly kingdoms"? Would an example of an earthly kingdom be the UNITED KINGDOM or THE KINGDOM OF SPAIN or DENMARK? If not can you explain what you mean by "earthly kingdoms".

Please clarify.


JW

DANIEL 2: 44 ESV


It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever

[ * ]GOVERNMENT : A government is the system or group of people governing an organized community - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1248]

You wrote: “ God and Jesus are spirits but this does not mean they cannot destroy physical wicked people or entities (governments). Nor does it mean because God is in heaven he cannot rule over the physical planet EARTH. ....

Me: I agree. ... He can do what ever He chooses to do.

My question for you MissKate is the following (I've put my own question into a quote box so it stands out) here it comes ...

In the "hyperthetical situation" where we have God as KING ruling over the physical planet earth as His DOMAIN / territory ... would there exist a word for that ? In short, a word for a KING + DOMain?

Don't worry, I'm not asking you to admit that such a thing actually exists, I'm just asking you if it did, what would be the word for it be?

[Diogenes]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

The passage cannot be understood without considering Luke 17:21. "The Kingdom of God is within you."
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

The Pharisees' ask about 'when?' Jesus replies that the Kingdom of God does not come "with observation" or "with a visible display," for the 'Kingdom' is within a man's heart. Jesus is concerned with attitude, with love, with state of mind. This is a universal rather than sectarian concern. It is a concern shared by Buddhists and Hindus and by the greatest Christian thinkers. Orthodox Christianity completely misunderstands what Jesus is trying to teach.

[myth-one.com]

Jesus never said we should pray for the earth to become part of the kingdom of heaven.

Thy kingdom come . . .

You wrote: “After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:”

My response: At Jesus Second Coming, He will hand His kingdom over to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24).

He must retake it from Satan before He can hand it over to the Father. In the book of Luke, when Satan tempted Jesus for forty days in the desert, Satan offered Jesus power over all the kingdoms of the earth:

And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Notice that Jesus did not question the devil's authority to give him power over the earth. He knew that Satan did indeed have control over the earth and could give or share this power with whomever he pleased. Jesus' immediate response was:

Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Once God makes a covenant, or testament, or promise, He always keeps it. Satan was given rule over the earth. Although he rebelled against his creator, God did not and will not violate the agreement. Satan was given rule over the world and a ruler must be defeated and overthrown! This is one of the reasons Jesus is coming to the earth, to defeat Satan.

You wrote:
“Also, only spiritual bodied beings can inherit the Kingdom of God, and to become a spiritual bodied being one must be born of the Spirit (God):
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)”

To date no human has been born of the Spirit. Being born again of the Spirit into everlasting spiritual life is the reward of the saved. And Jesus is bringing our reward upon His return:

Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him... (Isaiah 62:11)
And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)”

My response: Those who have obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ have indeed entered the kingdom of our dear Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

It is not our physical bodies that enter into Jesus’ kingdom. It is our spiritual selves that do.

Jesus is presently in heaven preparing a place for us:

I go to prepare a place for you.

When our place is ready, Jesus will bring it back to earth upon His return:

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

(Revelation 21:1-2)
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

you wrote:
No human has a spiritual body. Also, there is no place ready for you.

You are incorrect when you say no human has been born of the spirit.

1 Peter 1:3
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

To inherit the Kingdom of God one must be born again of the Spirit as a spirit.

Being born again unto a "hope" is not the same as being born again of the Spirit. I agree with Peter & Jesus' explanation. Believers (living and deceased) are currently hopeful heirs unto everlasting life. We will be born of the Spirit (God) as an immortal spirit at the Second Coming.

It is a real actual event, not simply some warm and fuzzy feeling. Those born of the Spirit can move as the wind. Does that describe any Christians which you know?

[MissKate13]

You asked: What are "these kingdoms" that the verse also refer to?

My response: They are earthly kingdoms.

What do you mean by "earthly kingdoms"? Would an example of an earthly kingdom be the UNITED KINGDOM or THE KINGDOM OF SPAIN or DENMARK? If not can you explain what you mean by "earthly kingdoms".

Please clarify.


JW

DANIEL 2: 44 ESV


It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever

[ * ]GOVERNMENT : A government is the system or group of people governing an organized community - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government

Physical/earthly as opposed to spiritual. The USA is a physical kingdom, but within the USA there is Jesus’ (spiritual) kingdom, His church. Every nation in the world is an earthly kingdom, but in each, there is the spiritual kingdom of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Think about what it means to be in Christ (Galatians 3:27) or to have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you (Romans 8:9). Theses passages speak of spiritual, not physical.

The physical will be destroyed someday. The spiritual goes on forever.

[2timothy316]

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal.

God is a spirit.

Is God imortal?

My name is Timothy and I like cats.
Does that mean all people named Timothy like cats?

Do you see the flaw in the logic?

[JehovahsWitness]

The USA is a physical kingdom...

Thank you ... so let's take your example of the USA: The United States of America is a federal republic consisting of 50 states, a federal district five major territories, and various minor islands. What is a republic? A republic is a FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

So the " earthly kingdoms" are earthly (human) forms of GOVERNMENT * ; not restricted to republics - because there have historically been various forms of government. But basically "these kingdoms" as refered to in DANIEL 2:44b refer to ALL forms of human government that exist prior to being destroyed by God

[ * ]GOVERNMENT : A government is the system or group of people governing an organized community - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government


Do you agree with the above? (my words put in the quote box in brown by me for emphasis ) If not, can you please provide your rational.


Thanks,


JW


PS I am enjoying this in depth analysis you yourself suggested focusing on 2 scriptures.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1267]

So am I. I love discussing the word of God.

You asked if I agree with the following. “ So the " earthly kingdoms" are earthly (human) forms of GOVERNMENT * ; not restricted to republics - because there have historically been various forms of government. But basically "these kingdoms" as refered to in DANIEL 2:44b refer to ALL forms of human government that exist prior to being destroyed by God.”

My response: I don’t disagree or agree. All I know is that the earthly kingdoms are of this world. Jesus’ kingdom, on the other hand, is a spiritual kingdom. All earthly kingdoms will be destroyed. Jesus’ kingdom is forever. I’m not sure what you’re getting at with “human forms of government,” or what bearing it has on the topic of discussion. Maybe you could enlighten me.

Which of the statements below is true? Which are false?

a. The kingdom of Jesus is present.
b. The kingdom of Jesus is spiritual by nature.
c. Jesus is reigning over His kingdom from heaven.
d. Christians are Jesus’ subjects.

[myth-one.com]

It has been shown as well that spirits are not immortal.

God is a spirit.

Is God immortal?

My name is Timothy and I like cats.
Does that mean all people named Timothy like cats?

Do you see the flaw in the logic?

No, all people named Timothy like cats cannot be concluded from your statement.

The flaw is that there is not sufficient information for me to answer your question.

I do not know all people named Timothy.

Nor do I know one person named Timothy who does not love cats.

<=================================================>

But returning to the point of debate:

Does any mortal human reading this posting have any evidence to support Onewithhim's claim that spiritual bodied beings such as God and the angels are not immortal?

Satan being "destroyed" is not such a proof -- as Satan's fate is to be restrained in the lake of fire for all eternity. So "destroyed" as used here does not mean death.

[Diogenes]

I go to prepare a place for you.

When our place is ready, Jesus will bring it back to earth upon His return

He created the whole world in six days, but it's taken 2000 years to prepare the 'place' and it still isn't ready.