I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.
Jesus' words:
1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)
2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)
3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)
He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)
5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)
6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)
7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)
To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)
Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?
Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?
JESUS IS NOT GOD
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- onewithhim
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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #841Do you obey Jesus?myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:07 pm RE: Jesus Is Not God
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The Word was God. And The Word, or God, created the heavens and the earth in the beginning.
Jesus Christ did not exist in the beginning. He came into existence in verse 14 of John chapter one:
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So God created the heavens and the earth -- not Jesus Christ.
And Jesus was a man:
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Yes or no?
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #842Which one is the greater of the 3?myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:59 pm
Let us consider why the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit; where biblical blasphemy is the sin of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and placed angels on the earth as caretakers under supervision of the archangel Satan. However, Satan wanted more power. He wanted to be like the most high God:
Isaiah 14:12-14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Not satisfied in being the ruler over the earth, Satan desired to be like the most High God. So he rebelled and attempted to usurp the power and authority of God. Satan thus committed blasphemy against God. God then created man a little lower than the angels during the Genesis recreation of the earth. Man is mortal but can become equal unto the angels when born again as a spirit at or after the Second Coming of Christ. Once man is born again as a spiritual body, he will be immortal and live forever. These new angels being created from mortal men and women will then assume the duties of the rebellious angels on earth.
If immortal replacements are being created to replace the rebels, then certainly one characteristic which they must not possess is that quality which caused the originals to fail! The original crew committed blasphemy against God, the creator of the earth. They rebelled against His creation and failed in their responsibility as earthly caretakers. The current day-to-day representative assigned to aid Christians on the earth is the Holy Ghost. Thus, the one unpardonable sin which man must not commit is this similar sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost!
God does not desire to create more immortal spirits with the same character flaw which caused the originals to fail.
A. The Holy Ghost
B. The Father
C. The Son
Which is the truth?
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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #843It is not surprising that those who claim Jesus is God mainly quote the Gospel of John. John is very different from the three synoptic gospels. It preaches while the others at least make a pretense of just recording, particularly Mark and Matthew. Rather than go into the details, many of which have already been expressed here, anyone actually wishing to explore this subject (as opposed to merely preaching their own opinion) are well advised to read a book by an accomplished scholar, Thomas Sheehan, The First Coming. It's available online at no charge.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/tho ... rstcoming/
Sheehan, as do many debaters here, distinguish John from the other gospels. Paul also has a very distinct point of view, at odds with the verses quoted in the OP and by others pointing out Jesus himself did not claim to be God, and in fact reportedly made many statements that suggest he knew he was a man and not God.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/tho ... rstcoming/
Sheehan, as do many debaters here, distinguish John from the other gospels. Paul also has a very distinct point of view, at odds with the verses quoted in the OP and by others pointing out Jesus himself did not claim to be God, and in fact reportedly made many statements that suggest he knew he was a man and not God.
___________________________________
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #844It really does not matterDiogenes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:34 pm It is not surprising that those who claim Jesus is God mainly quote the Gospel of John. John is very different from the three synoptic gospels. It preaches while the others at least make a pretense of just recording, particularly Mark and Matthew. Rather than go into the details, many of which have already been expressed here, anyone actually wishing to explore this subject (as opposed to merely preaching their own opinion) are well advised to read a book by an accomplished scholar, Thomas Sheehan, The First Coming. It's available online at no charge.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/tho ... rstcoming/
Sheehan, as do many debaters here, distinguish John from the other gospels. Paul also has a very distinct point of view, at odds with the verses quoted in the OP and by others pointing out Jesus himself did not claim to be God, and in fact reportedly made many statements that suggest he knew he was a man and not God.
one way or the other with these Christians
whether they believe Jesus is God or do not
none of them obey God or Jesus or the Holy Ghost.
Therefore they are all in disobedience out of the will of God
with the wrath of God upon them...
just like all those who don't even believe in God.
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #845John
Chapter 5
That all men should honour the Son,
even as they honour the Father.
He that honoureth not the Son honoureth
not the Father which hath sent him.
Here you admitting that you do not honor the Son as you honor the Father.
You worship the Father but not the Son.
You are in disobedience to God.
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #846John
Chapter 5
That all men should honour the Son,
even as they honour the Father.
He that honoureth not the Son honoureth
not the Father which hath sent him.
If you honor the Father as God
but do not so to the Son
then you are in disobedience to God.
Chapter 5
That all men should honour the Son,
even as they honour the Father.
He that honoureth not the Son honoureth
not the Father which hath sent him.
If you honor the Father as God
but do not so to the Son
then you are in disobedience to God.
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #847myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:07 pm RE: Jesus Is Not God
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The Word was God. And The Word, or God, created the heavens and the earth in the beginning.
Jesus Christ did not exist in the beginning. He came into existence in verse 14 of John chapter one:
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So God created the heavens and the earth -- not Jesus Christ.
And Jesus was a man:
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John
Chapter 5
That all men should honour the Son,
even as they honour the Father.
He that honoureth not the Son honoureth
not the Father which hath sent him.
If you honor the Father as God
but do not so to the Son
then you are in disobedience to God.
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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #848Moderator WarningOneWay wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:55 pm It really does not matter
one way or the other with these Christians
whether they believe Jesus is God or do not
none of them obey God or Jesus or the Holy Ghost.
Therefore they are all in disobedience out of the will of God
with the wrath of God upon them...
just like all those who don't even believe in God.
Please do not make any personal comment towards any group or individuals. Also, do not preach and post repetitive posts.
Please review our Rules.
______________
Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD
Post #849It really does not matterotseng wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:52 amModerator WarningOneWay wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:55 pm It really does not matter
one way or the other with these Christians
whether they believe Jesus is God or do not
none of them obey God or Jesus or the Holy Ghost.
Therefore they are all in disobedience out of the will of God
with the wrath of God upon them...
just like all those who don't even believe in God.
Please do not make any personal comment towards any group or individuals. Also, do not preach and post repetitive posts.
Please review our Rules.
______________
Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
one way or the other with these Christians
whether they believe Jesus is God or do not
none of them obey God or Jesus or the Holy Ghost.
Therefore they are all in disobedience out of the will of God
with the wrath of God upon them...
just like all those who don't even believe in God
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