Does Christ speak and how?

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Does Christ speak and how?

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Post by tam »

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."
(Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #291

Post by OneWay »

William wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:42 am
tam wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:37 pm Peace again,
[Replying to William in post #124]

Your sharing re hearing a voice which you do not consider to being your own, begs that response and is the reason why folk want to discuss you with yourself...want to know who you are and why you are telling us about this voice you are hearing which you claim is the voice of The Christ.
And I think I have been very open in responding to those questions while bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ.
Are you claiming to hear the voice of Christ inside your head as a distinct and separate voice to your own internal dialog? Your response to my questions regarding that, are not as open as you obviously think that they are. More clarity is required in order that there is some way in which the reader can test the validity of your claims.

I wrote in the other thread;

I have also wondered and questioned you on your position Tammy, and as we both know - I have been annoyed by your statements to do with hearing Christ as a 'voice'.
Presently I treat your witness in the same way as I treat anyone's witness re hearing a voice/hearing voices, and as 'the voices' [re that real phenomena] present themselves in two main ways - nice and nasty - consider the voice you are listening to and to which you publicly identify as being "Christ" as 'nice' rather than as with Joey Knothead, who tells us his voice is "Nasty".

I know that we have touched on this in our interactions and that you are uncomfortable with this comparison type of analysis, but since both you and Joey have been open to share the experience of your voices, I feel I have no option but to hear you both out, as well as source other stories of other folk and hear what they have to say, in order to try and understand the phenomena folk claim to be taking place.

This is as far as I have got to date;
Re: Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

so I am just reporting through this interjection method, where and why I think your observations re folk discussing you (instead of the topic), derives.

Your sharing re hearing a voice which you do not consider to being your own, begs that response and is the reason why folk want to discuss you with yourself...want to know who you are and why you are telling us about this voice you are hearing which you claim is the voice of The Christ.

Please consider my observations and explain to the reader why we should accept that the voice you hear is the voice of Christ and not a mental hallucination.


I created an entire thread for just that purpose (to explain, and to try and keep from derailing other threads from their actual topic). I think I posted the link above.
Yes you did - and I responded in this thread a few posts back and am awaiting your answers.
Peace again.
Peace.
tam wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:43 am [Replying to William in post #280]

William, I do not see how I could possibly respond more in depth to your questions than I have already responded. I do not think I have anything more to add to what has already been said.


Peace again to you.
Ongoing Confirmation.
You are still missing the point Clownboat.

Tam is clearly enough saying that 'having Christ teach us' isn't the same as "Tam telling us what she believes Christ is telling her."

In that, Tam is saying that she has ongoing confirmation that what she refers to as 'The voice of Christ teaching" is telling her the truth, and so in order for another to have the same experience, the other must also somehow connect with the voice of Christ and through the ongoing confirmation establish an integration between ones personality-voice and the Christ-voice...

We can of course, argue re that - "confirmation bias" but as Tam addresses, it is important to be able to distinguish between what the personality tells itself and what the voice of The Lord tells the personality.

The way I would say it, is that the process allows for one come to a place where there would be no distinction between self-voice and Christ -voice which is real/noticeable and such takes time and discipline to accomplish in a genuine manner.

Meantime, there is a work in progress occurring...thus "it is not my knowledge or wisdom, but rather, His." is acknowledging some understanding of the process re said work in progress re whatever "This is something my Lord has confirmed to me" might be - as in - what Tam chooses to share with us that she thinks of as "confirmation".
When you criticize the things that you believe are "not of your dear Lord", where are you getting you confirmation from?

This is me, having communication with another, about 'voices' and 'the voice of Christ'.

viewtopic.php?p=1103034#p1103034
You are wasting your time. Jesus does not converse with that woman.
He does not even know her.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #292

Post by William »

Clownboat wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:45 pm
tam wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:05 am You tell me. You are the one who continues to change Him and voice - to - them and voices.
Copy/paste: "I don't understand the difference if a person is hearing a voice or voices. Is it normal to hear a voice, but crazy to hear many? Either way, I'm confident I did not offend any voice."
I am not understanding what difference it makes if a person hears one voice or many and I have asked you if it is normal to hear a voice, but crazy to hear many? I do find your objection to the idea that you hear more than one voice to be very fascinating though. It's almost as if the idea that hearing one voice is normal and only when a person hears more than one should they be alarmed.


I listen to the voice of my.... <Snipped more stuff about the voice you hear>
You seem to be finding fault in that (I could be misreading your 'tone'), but is that not something a good Teacher would do: teach their student to test what they hear, rather than just accept any and every claim?
Critical thinking should be learned before we are sent off to be taught. There are dastardly human on this planet after all, even teachers. So teach critical thinking, not believing teachers.
Step 1: Teacher makes claim.
Step 2: Apply critical thinking.

Compared to...
Step 1: Teacher makes claim.
Step 2: Teacher makes another claim about how to verify the first claim. Teacher supplies a subjective mechanism like, 'does it represent love'. If yes, accept. If no, reject. This mechanism will have varying results from person to person and is therefore not a valid mechanism. It would be critical thinking that would have us arrive at the realization that a subjective mechanism cannot be trusted, like the one supplied by the teacher in the example.
We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ.

You suggest listening to a voice that you hear. How am I to listen to the voice that you hear?
Having a subjective mechanism like, 'does it represent love' is actually a valid mechanism for all the denominations we have, not a lack of hearing a voice or voices for that matter.
a slave of Christ,
tammy
slave
noun
1.
a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person.

I acknowledge the voice you claim to hear, the spirit(s) that guide you or whatever they do, that you claim your knowledge is not your own, but that of a God and that you are a slave to this (the voice, the spirits... all of it). I do not dispute these claims of yours and that you really feel these things are interacting with you.

This is all very odd to me though, as I have never heard voices nor been in a position of being forced into obedience. It's all very fascinating to me.
Clownboat has a point here Tam.

Ordinarily we can accept the presence of one voice in our head - the voice of our "self" our "person/personality"

You make the point of arguing that the voice of your dear Lord is a separate voice from your own voice of the personality.

This signifies that you have at least one other voice apart from your own, which in terms of psychology means that it falls under the heading of 'hearing voices'.

My questions to you, Tammy.
Should you be alarmed?
Do you apply critical thinking re what you hear the voice telling you?
Is the voice - as a mechanism - subjective or objective in comparison to your own personalities voice?
Which voice is it who say's "We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ."?
[This I ask because, in written form it takes on a tone of you appearing to look down upon other Christians, [and folk in general] as if - because of the voice you hear which claims to be Christ - you are better than anyone else you/your voices - considered to NOT be listening to Christ. Something has yet to be established re your claim here Tam, before it can be accepted as truth, and thus vital.]

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #293

Post by tam »

[Replying to William in post #292]

I appreciate your attempt to bring the matters onto this thread William (peace to you). I will just post a link to my response to Clownboat on that other thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1103287#p1103287



Peace again.
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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #294

Post by William »

tam wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:54 pm [Replying to William in post #292]

I appreciate your attempt to bring the matters onto this thread William (peace to you). I will just post a link to my response to Clownboat on that other thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1103287#p1103287



Peace again.
And the difference is accuracy. The difference is what I said versus what you keep changing it to. So why do you do that? Does changing it to 'them' and 'voices' make it easier for you to dismiss or to believe I have a mental illness?
Clownboat has a point here Tam.

Ordinarily we can accept the presence of one voice in our head - the voice of our "self" our "person/personality"

You make the point of arguing that the voice of your dear Lord is a separate voice from your own voice of the personality.

This signifies that you have at least one other voice apart from your own, which in terms of psychology means that it falls under the heading of 'hearing voices'.

If not, then why not simply go with what I said in the first place?
There is no evident reason to simply go with what you say Tammy. That is why the 'spirits must be tested'.

My questions to you, Tammy.
Q: Should you be alarmed?
Obviously you appear not to be. Why is that?

Q: Do you apply critical thinking re what you hear the voice telling you?

When you first encounter this voice, what steps did you take to ensure its authenticity?

Q: Is the voice - as a mechanism - subjective or objective in comparison to your own personalities voice?

Example.
I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.

I thinknow the process runs deeper still, but all in all appears to be a normal type phenomena which I also link with Jung's Archetypes.

Q: Which voice is it who say's "We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ."?

[This I ask because, in written form it takes on a tone of you appearing to look down upon other Christians, [and folk in general] as if - because of the voice you hear which claims to be Christ - you are better than anyone else you/your voices - considered to NOT be listening to Christ. Something has yet to be established re your claim here Tam, before it can be accepted as truth, and thus vital.]
I appreciate your attempt to bring the matters onto this thread William (peace to you).
I do this because the subject matter of the other thread is not directly about hearing voice(s) Tam, whereas this one is, and can be accessed specifically for that purpose, and I think what Clownboat has to say in critiquing your claim, shouldn't be lost - as it will be when that thread sinks.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #295

Post by tam »

William wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:08 pm

If not, then why not simply go with what I said in the first place?
There is no evident reason to simply go with what you say Tammy. That is why the 'spirits must be tested' so your word on this is not good enough.
When I asked 'why not go with what I said in the first place" I was referring to his penchant of changing my words "voice and Him " to something I did not say: 'voices and them".

You might be missing the context in that exchange.
My questions to you, Tammy.
Q: Should you be alarmed?
Obviously you appear not to be. Why is that?
I have no reason to be alarmed. My Lord has never lied to me or led me wrong, and the direction He gives me is always from love, and He is the One who taught me to test the inspired expressions.
Q: Do you apply critical thinking re what you hear the voice telling you?
I follow what my Lord has taught me about testing the inspired expressions, yes. I do believe I covered this question (and others) in the OP, William.
When you first encounter this voice, what steps did you take to ensure its authenticity?
When I first heard my Lord, I did not know it was Him speaking or even that He did speak. Not until many many years later (He reminded me of the times that He had spoken to me in my life before I recognized Him). He has always spoken what is true (including that He is alive and that He does speak and teach and lead His sheep into all truth).
Q: Is the voice - as a mechanism - subjective or objective in comparison to your own personalities voice?

Example.
I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.
I can have conversations with myself as well , but that is just me thinking things though. That is not what I am describing with my Lord. His voice is His voice.
Q: Which voice is it who say's "We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ."?
Isn't that just common sense? If denominations contradict one another... at least one of those denominations in contradiction must be untrue. If denominations contradict Christ - well, how then can they be listening to Him?

It can be even more obvious than that (at least to me) - though many may not wish to see it - because some (people or religious leaders) will claim outright that they are/should be listening to their religion/religious leaders... or to the bible (and they almost always mean 'the bible as a whole', rather than putting Christ first). Some even state outright that Christ does not speak, that they do not hear His voice, that no one can hear His voice (including the religious leaders). So how can they be listening to Christ? How can their leaders be listening to Christ?


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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #296

Post by tam »

To add (from the OP), with regard to your question 'should you be alarmed',
The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.

Peace again to you.
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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #297

Post by William »

If not, then why not simply go with what I said in the first place?
There is no evident reason to simply go with what you say Tammy. That is why the 'spirits must be tested' so your word on this is not good enough.
When I asked 'why not go with what I said in the first place" I was referring to his penchant of changing my words "voice and Him " to something I did not say: 'voices and them".
You might be missing the context in that exchange.
No - I get the context. I am simply saying that the spirits have to be tested, and the voice you hear in your head, and claim as being "The Voice of Christ", is NOT an exception to that rule.
I have no reason to be alarmed. My Lord has never lied to me or led me wrong, and the direction He gives me is always from love, and He is the One who taught me to test the inspired expressions.
Q: What "inspired expressions" are you referring to Tam?

Is what you wrote;
We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ
one such inspired expression?
Or does it come through the filter of your personality voice?
This is what we need to verify re testing the spirits.
Q: When you first encountered this voice, what steps did you take to ensure its authenticity?
When I first heard my Lord, I did not know it was Him speaking or even that He did speak. Not until many many years later (He reminded me of the times that He had spoken to me in my life before I recognized Him). He has always spoken what is true (including that He is alive and that He does speak and teach and lead His sheep into all truth).
Are you saying that these constitute the steps you took in ensuring its authenticity?

If so,

Q: Why are you now involved with internet interaction with others and claiming what you do, and making negative statements about other Christians?

Q: Are you doing so because the voice told you to, or do you just take it upon yourself to engage with others in this manner?
Q: Is the voice - as a mechanism - subjective or objective in comparison to your own personalities voice?

Example.
I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.
I can have conversations with myself as well , but that is just me thinking things though. That is not what I am describing with my Lord. His voice is His voice.
Okay. This is helpful information as clearly you are making a distinction between one's ordinary thought-voice and the voice you hear separate from that.

Q: Would I be correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of?
Q: Which voice is it who say's "We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ."?
Isn't that just common sense?
Q: Are you saying then, that it is your own thought-voice expressing a common sense, rather than you having heard it stated by the other voice you claim, is Christ?

If denominations contradict one another... at least one of those denominations in contradiction must be untrue.
Unless it doesn't work like that Tam.

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

I think of Christ along those lines. It isn't that everyone else is wrong and I am right/every other denomination but my own is false.

In doing so, a grander picture emerges which I can identify as more likely being "of Christ" than the finger-pointing variety, and even includes other types of theists and even non-theists, as being part of that which constitutes Christ.
If denominations contradict Christ - well, how then can they be listening to Him?
Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

Q: Where can this contradiction be found, that we can examine that as evidence against these one's that at least - you speak about?

Re that;

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #298

Post by OneWay »

William wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:10 pm
If not, then why not simply go with what I said in the first place?
There is no evident reason to simply go with what you say Tammy. That is why the 'spirits must be tested' so your word on this is not good enough.
When I asked 'why not go with what I said in the first place" I was referring to his penchant of changing my words "voice and Him " to something I did not say: 'voices and them".
You might be missing the context in that exchange.
No - I get the context. I am simply saying that the spirits have to be tested, and the voice you hear in your head, and claim as being "The Voice of Christ", is NOT an exception to that rule.
I have no reason to be alarmed. My Lord has never lied to me or led me wrong, and the direction He gives me is always from love, and He is the One who taught me to test the inspired expressions.
Q: What "inspired expressions" are you referring to Tam?

Is what you wrote;
We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ
one such inspired expression?
Or does it come through the filter of your personality voice?
This is what we need to verify re testing the spirits.
Q: When you first encountered this voice, what steps did you take to ensure its authenticity?
When I first heard my Lord, I did not know it was Him speaking or even that He did speak. Not until many many years later (He reminded me of the times that He had spoken to me in my life before I recognized Him). He has always spoken what is true (including that He is alive and that He does speak and teach and lead His sheep into all truth).
Are you saying that these constitute the steps you took in ensuring its authenticity?

If so,

Q: Why are you now involved with internet interaction with others and claiming what you do, and making negative statements about other Christians?

Q: Are you doing so because the voice told you to, or do you just take it upon yourself to engage with others in this manner?
Q: Is the voice - as a mechanism - subjective or objective in comparison to your own personalities voice?

Example.
I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.
I can have conversations with myself as well , but that is just me thinking things though. That is not what I am describing with my Lord. His voice is His voice.
Okay. This is helpful information as clearly you are making a distinction between one's ordinary thought-voice and the voice you hear separate from that.

Q: Would I be correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of?
Q: Which voice is it who say's "We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ."?
Isn't that just common sense?
Q: Are you saying then, that it is your own thought-voice expressing a common sense, rather than you having heard it stated by the other voice you claim, is Christ?

If denominations contradict one another... at least one of those denominations in contradiction must be untrue.
Unless it doesn't work like that Tam.

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

I think of Christ along those lines. It isn't that everyone else is wrong and I am right/every other denomination but my own is false.

In doing so, a grander picture emerges which I can identify as more likely being "of Christ" than the finger-pointing variety, and even includes other types of theists and even non-theists, as being part of that which constitutes Christ.
If denominations contradict Christ - well, how then can they be listening to Him?
Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

Q: Where can this contradiction be found, that we can examine that as evidence against these one's that at least - you speak about?

Re that;

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?
Do you believe that Jesus speaks to her as she claims to us on this forum?

Yes or no?

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Clownboat
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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #299

Post by Clownboat »

tam wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:58 am My Lord has saved me, dear one. I may be a good for nothing servant, and I am undeserving, but I am one of His sheep.

Peace again to you.
Surely you see how this reads as a statement meant to self indocrinate and reinforce an existing belief?

Can you see why religious leaders would want you to feel like you are good for nothing? Cult leaders do it in order to control members. You must first believe you are sick, before you will take the medicine after all. Your words read as a reminder of how sick you think you are. If you are not sick, you don't need the offered medicine. Why would you seek to reinforce this feeling of being undeserving? My guess is that you are a wonderful person. Is it loving to encourage people to feel undeserving and good for nothing? I'm not seeing the love.

Proverbs 19:8 To acquire wisdom is to love oneself; people who cherish understanding will prosper.
Mark 12:31 Love your neighbor as yourself. No other commandment is greater than these. - How can you love your neighbor if they are a good for nothing servant that is undeserving?
Leviticus 19:34 Treat them like native-born Israelites, and love them as you love yourself.

I don't feel that speading a message of being undeserving and being good for nothing is a loving message myself. If I were to test these words, I would not find them loving and therefore not from Christ. You may see the love somehow, and therfore, they are from Christ. See the problem?

From the OP: "My sheep hear my voice"
I once also claimed to be a sheep of Christs. Claimed to have a relationship with him. I begged for him to make himself known to me. For 2 decades, I could not hear his voice, therefore the scripture is wrong and there is more to hearing this voice than just being sheeply. This I have lived.
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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #300

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Clownboat wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:55 am
tam wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:58 am My Lord has saved me, dear one. I may be a good for nothing servant, and I am undeserving, but I am one of His sheep.

Peace again to you.
Surely you see how this reads as a statement meant to self indocrinate and reinforce an existing belief?

Can you see why religious leaders would want you to feel like you are good for nothing?


I do not have any religious leaders, dear Clownboat.

And my Lord is the One who teaches me to love myself. How could I love my neighbor as myself if I do not first love myself?


Cult leaders do it in order to control members. You must first believe you are sick, before you will take the medicine after all. Your words read as a reminder of how sick you think you are. If you are not sick, you don't need the offered medicine. Why would you seek to reinforce this feeling of being undeserving?


Because I am undeserving. That doesn't mean I am not loved, because I am loved. But it also does not mean that I am a good servant, or that I am deserving of the blessings given me.
My guess is that you are a wonderful person. Is it loving to encourage people to feel undeserving and good for nothing? I'm not seeing the love.

Proverbs 19:8 To acquire wisdom is to love oneself; people who cherish understanding will prosper.
Mark 12:31 Love your neighbor as yourself. No other commandment is greater than these. - How can you love your neighbor if they are a good for nothing servant that is undeserving?
Leviticus 19:34 Treat them like native-born Israelites, and love them as you love yourself.
As I said above... my Lord does teach me to love myself, and so also my neighbor as myself. My Lord also teaches me to love my enemies.
I don't feel that speading a message of being undeserving and being good for nothing is a loving message myself. If I were to test these words, I would not find them loving and therefore not from Christ. You may see the love somehow, and therfore, they are from Christ. See the problem?
I see a problem in that you are not taking truth into consideration. Truth is not easy; truth does not tell people what they want to hear; truth does come from love but it is not going to tickle the ears; it is just going to be the truth. Like in the Matrix - the only thing Morpheus offered was the truth. He never said it would be nice. He never said it would be easy. Only that it would be true.

The words I wrote, I said those things about myself, regarding what I know about myself. "Good for nothing' might be a bit harsh (which is why I said 'may be' rather than 'am' - my Lord is the One who knows). Good for a little might be a bit too generous. I can sometimes bear witness to my Lord (though you and others have often told me that I do poor job of it so I do not know how you can possible argue with the description).

But I am not deserving. I did nothing to deserve the calling I received, or the anointing, or the blessings. I simply asked (and even then, the faith I had TO ask was given to me). Regardless, since when does asking for something mean that you deserve it?


From the OP: "My sheep hear my voice"
I once also claimed to be a sheep of Christs. Claimed to have a relationship with him. I begged for him to make himself known to me. For 2 decades, I could not hear his voice, therefore the scripture is wrong and there is more to hearing this voice than just being sheeply. This I have lived.
Clownboat, I don't understand how you could claim to have a relationship with someone while simultaneously begging Him to make himself known to you. That does not sound like a relationship to me. But it only takes one person for those words to be true (though certainly there is more than one person bearing witness to the truth in my dear Lord's words). Maybe you were not His sheep as you thought, or maybe you were His sheep - maybe you did hear His voice but did not recognize Him, and so did not listen to Him. Perhaps you did not recognize His voice because religion stepped in your way (as it does), and made you a disciple of it, using "Jesus" (the Hollywood icon it has created of the real person) to gain followers after itself?


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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