Theists, Some Vexing Follow-up Questions?.?.?

[POI]

In a recent topic ---- > here (viewtopic.php?t=38559&start=60), I posed the following question:

"when one reads this Verse, was the punishment commanded by the consensus of humans, or, god himself?"

Placing this into context, the interlocutor argues that God's moral don't change, but the assigned punishment does --- for whatever reason (undefined).... The above question has yet to be answered or addressed by my debate opponent. So I thought I would offer it here.

For debate:

1) Let's suppose God's morals do not change. Okay, great... Then why in the heck does god command that a priest's daughter is to be burned to death, if she loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father, with NO caveats?

2) If there exists caveats, why are they not mentioned?

3) Was this command ultimately issued/inspired by God, or humans? And how do you know?

4) Exactly when and WHY does this command no longer apply? Or is it still applied by God?

5) How can you distinguish if any passages, at all, are inspired by any god?

[Clownboat]

We know rape is wrong. If you have the experience I do, which I cannot be sure you do, then you also know rape is wrong, but your let your naturalism get in the way of your knowing.

You have a pretend war going on with naturalism.

If you were born in Papua New Guinea to the Sambia tribe, when you injested the semen of the elders to begin your process of becoming a man, you would find it socially acceptable for it being socially acceptable. It is not wrong and you only think it is because you were not born into said culture.

Are you claiming that the Sambia know that this part of their culture is wrong, but they continue on with the practice anyway?


The Sambia Tribe in Papua New Guinea have tradition that has fascinated (and confused) many. They are the tribe that drinks semen to turn boys into men.
Throughout much of the 6 stages, the act of having the stick of cane inserted into the nostrils and the performance of 'fellatio' are integral to the process of becoming a man. While the former practice is often derided by many as 'inhumane' and the latter is often referred to as 'homosexual' behaviour, the Sambia’s understanding and purpose behind these two processes differs from our conventional understanding.
https://www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/food-tra ... en/533m7bv

Do they know that rape (this specific act being discussed to keep you on point) is objectively wrong as you claim?

[William]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

Do they know that rape (this specific act being discussed to keep you on point) is objectively wrong as you claim?

I think it is like anything else, we grow up and cease practicing silliness.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

We all have it, but we can drown it out and ignore it. We can be conditioned to accept things that go against it. I was conditioned to the idea that just being a homosexual was sin, but it did not feel correct, and I was able to go against that conditioning. Much later in life, I learned that the church also teaches it is not sin to be homosexual. It is only sin to practice gay sex.

[brunumb]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

We all have it, but we can drown it out and ignore it. We can be conditioned to accept things that go against it. I was conditioned to the idea that just being a homosexual was sin, but it did not feel correct, and I was able to go against that conditioning. Much later in life, I learned that the church also teaches it is not sin to be homosexual. It is only sin to practice gay sex.

Ah, yes, God made them that way so now we can't be compelled to stone them. But at least we have another way to oppress them and cause them to suffer. Is it any wonder I abhor the church.

[POI]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

We all have it, but we can drown it out and ignore it. We can be conditioned to accept things that go against it. I was conditioned to the idea that just being a homosexual was sin, but it did not feel correct, and I was able to go against that conditioning. Much later in life, I learned that the church also teaches it is not sin to be homosexual. It is only sin to practice gay sex.

I think it would be sensible to conclude the Catholic church's hand has been forced... Homosexuality is not a sin, because many, who enter into the priesthood, are homosexuals. This is evident by the fact that many Catholic priests have been caught having sex with other men/boys.

The last part of your underlined response bleeds directly into one of three unresolved matters. Namely, question #3. I will cut/paste them here, and serve them up on a silver platter, from post #149:

1) Have you demonstrated why the statement "rape is wrong" is any more of an objective statement than stating "eating warm feces is very yucky"? You can deduce both without ever having to actually experience both.

2) Have you demonstrated <THE> mechanism, which creates a clear <STANDARD> for (morals), any more than one can demonstrate <THE> mechanism, which creates a clear <STANDARD> for (economics)? Please stop calling this a false analogy. The point of this question is to demonstrate that you can no more apply <A STANDARD> to morals, than you can of other topics, like economics. If you think you can, let's hear it. Because you have not yet...

3) Have you informed us about how your deep passions and hatred for the topic of 'rape' actually parallels the Bible-God's position about 'rape'? The Bible-God does not seem to share your passion -- (a priori or other). On the contrary, God seems to hate gay sex. Do you detest it as much as He apparently does? Thus far, you have only accused me of having some 'atheistic agenda'. Well, I can just as easily accuse you of some bias or agenda, when reading the exact same passages

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

We all have it, but we can drown it out and ignore it. We can be conditioned to accept things that go against it. I was conditioned to the idea that just being a homosexual was sin, but it did not feel correct, and I was able to go against that conditioning. Much later in life, I learned that the church also teaches it is not sin to be homosexual. It is only sin to practice gay sex.

I don't understand why you need a church to tell you what is right or wrong. No matter, it is just further evidence that we are not talking about an objective subject.
Also, your response above about gay sex seems to have nothing to do with the point I made.

The Sambia Tribe in Papua New Guinea have tradition that has fascinated (and confused) many. They are the tribe that drinks semen to turn boys into men.
Throughout much of the 6 stages, the act of having the stick of cane inserted into the nostrils and the performance of 'fellatio' are integral to the process of becoming a man. While the former practice is often derided by many as 'inhumane' and the latter is often referred to as 'homosexual' behaviour, the Sambia’s understanding and purpose behind these two processes differs from our conventional understanding.
https://www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/food-tra ... en/533m7bv

Do they know that rape (this specific act being discussed to keep you on point) is objectively wrong as you claim?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

We all have it, but we can drown it out and ignore it. We can be conditioned to accept things that go against it. I was conditioned to the idea that just being a homosexual was sin, but it did not feel correct, and I was able to go against that conditioning. Much later in life, I learned that the church also teaches it is not sin to be homosexual. It is only sin to practice gay sex.

I don't understand why you need a church to tell you what is right or wrong. No matter, it is just further evidence that we are not talking about an objective subject.
Also, your response above about gay sex seems to have nothing to do with the point I made.

The Sambia Tribe in Papua New Guinea have tradition that has fascinated (and confused) many. They are the tribe that drinks semen to turn boys into men.
Throughout much of the 6 stages, the act of having the stick of cane inserted into the nostrils and the performance of 'fellatio' are integral to the process of becoming a man. While the former practice is often derided by many as 'inhumane' and the latter is often referred to as 'homosexual' behaviour, the Sambia’s understanding and purpose behind these two processes differs from our conventional understanding.
https://www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/food-tra ... en/533m7bv

Do they know that rape (this specific act being discussed to keep you on point) is objectively wrong as you claim?

I did answer. We all know murder and rape is wrong. It comes down to how much we ignore it because of conditioning or other factors.

[POI]

I did answer. We all know murder and rape is wrong. It comes down to how much we ignore it because of conditioning or other factors.

Kool. You continue to ignore post 149. No problem.

How come God does not share your view, that "you just know rape is wrong"? If rape is wrong, period, then please explain away some Bible verses.

And before you answer, allow me to reiterate... We can both pull verses from the Bible. You can accuse me of having an 'atheistic agenda', and I can accuse you of having a 'Christian believing bias'. However, I'm simply calling a duck a duck. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck, it's probably a duck. You will notice I'm only pinpointing certain things from the Bible, and not everything. In this case, sanctioned RAPE.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #158]

How about just show a verse you believe is God saying rape is good. I will wait.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #158]

How about just show a verse you believe is God saying rape is good. I will wait.

Typical apologetics here... I stated that the Bible god has sanctioned rape. Do you disagree?