Connecting Miracles to God?

[Tcg]

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I recently heard a discussion where it was claimed that a well know former Christian pastor turned atheist told a story of the healing of a mute person which he facilitated while he was a pastor. I won't mention his name because I can't verify that he actually made that claim. However, let's skip that issue a assume a genuine miracle occurred where a person who was mute due to physical issues, was healed. Let's include that the healer prayed in Jesus' name or something to that effect.

How can we connect a genuine healing to the Christian God or any gods for that matter?

Is it enough that the healer invoked Jesus' name or directed the prayer to a specific god/gods?


Tcg

[brunumb]

Tcg started this thread by asking us to "assume a genuine miracle occurred where a person who was mute due to physical issues, was healed."

I guess that brings up the issue of how one establishes that a genuine miracle has actually occurred. What criteria do we use and how must they be applied? Surely the first steps would involve eliminating all possibility of a natural event or an event that involved some sort of human intervention. Anecdotes don't amount to much and that is all we seem to get.

[AquinasForGod]

This comes down to our worldview. And if we cannot demonstrate which worldview is correct, then we cannot know.

But we can argue for a worldview, such as monotheism and only God has the power to go against the laws of physics because he causes the laws of physics.

In this case, any miracle can only be performed by God.

[TRANSPONDER]

Tcg started this thread by asking us to "assume a genuine miracle occurred where a person who was mute due to physical issues, was healed."

I guess that brings up the issue of how one establishes that a genuine miracle has actually occurred. What criteria do we use and how must they be applied? Surely the first steps would involve eliminating all possibility of a natural event or an event that involved some sort of human intervention. Anecdotes don't amount to much and that is all we seem to get.

Well, I said it was tricky. It is so very tempting to some to play the 'you can't disprove it'card for unverifiable claims. And so many that seemed to be circumstantially verified by unimpeachable witnesses and documents on the spot, turn out to be rather dubious. We have to suspend belief until mistakes have been ruled out.

This comes down to our worldview. And if we cannot demonstrate which worldview is correct, then we cannot know.

But we can argue for a worldview, such as monotheism and only God has the power to go against the laws of physics because he causes the laws of physics.

In this case, any miracle can only be performed by God.

We already know which worldview is correct.Logic and (scientifically validated) evidence is more credible than faithclaims and inverted logic, not to mention fiddling or misrepresentation of evidence. I know this is creationism not miracles, but apart from the mucky polemics of'you could fit all the transitionals into a small car' and 'Lucy's bones could fit in a shoebox', it was claimed that Lucy was an ape because the spine entered the skull from the back, not from below. But that is simply false. Let's bite the bullet here, True Believers will lie or at least repeat them for what they believe is true on Faith.

It is a golden prize for them, to wangle God into credibility any way they can, ...I could give the sorry list from 'who made everything, then?' to 'Jesus helped me hit a home run'. You cannot allow these people even a half point or (another fallacy - the 'one shot win') they reckon that one half -argument even fora non -specific cosmic intelligence, validates the leap of faith to the Bible.

Apart from that, for real unexplained events, from NDEs to cancer remission, apart from giving god - claimants credibility they will screw all the juice out of, it gets in the way of investigation. We simply have to leave the unexplained in the pending tray until we understand it. So far, nothing has supported a god so there is really no valid reason to credit puzzling cures to a miracle, even if someone was praying at the time.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #13]

Except logic is not a worldview, so I saw no reason to read the rest.

Logic is a tool we can use to develop a worldview, but thus far, no worldview has been shown to be true.

[brunumb]

This comes down to our worldview. And if we cannot demonstrate which worldview is correct, then we cannot know.

But we can argue for a worldview, such as monotheism and only God has the power to go against the laws of physics because he causes the laws of physics.

In this case, any miracle can only be performed by God.

Kind of assuming facts not in evidence and then weaving them into a circular argument.

[AquinasForGod]

This comes down to our worldview. And if we cannot demonstrate which worldview is correct, then we cannot know.

But we can argue for a worldview, such as monotheism and only God has the power to go against the laws of physics because he causes the laws of physics.

In this case, any miracle can only be performed by God.

Kind of assuming facts not in evidence and then weaving them into a circular argument.

Show the form of a circular argument then fit what I said into it.

[brunumb]

This comes down to our worldview. And if we cannot demonstrate which worldview is correct, then we cannot know.

But we can argue for a worldview, such as monotheism and only God has the power to go against the laws of physics because he causes the laws of physics.

In this case, any miracle can only be performed by God.

Kind of assuming facts not in evidence and then weaving them into a circular argument.

Show the form of a circular argument then fit what I said into it.

I see you want to quibble about the validity of my circularity bit, so ok, maybe not technically correct even if it feels right. The rest still assumes facts not in evidence and as such is worthless in my book.

[JoeyKnothead]

This comes down to our worldview. And if we cannot demonstrate which worldview is correct, then we cannot know.

But we can argue for a worldview, such as monotheism and only God has the power to go against the laws of physics because he causes the laws of physics.

In this case, any miracle can only be performed by God.

The problem there is establishing his existence and, well, the rest of that stuff.