Why Would God Make Rules Subjugating Women?

[Diogenes]

This subtopic takes as a given that all three major Abrahamic religions developed laws to control or subjugate women to a different or lesser status. That is taken as a given for the purpose of this thread. Anyone who doubts the Abrahamic religions have, historically, fashioned rules for men to control women is advised to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and ... _religions and start their own, separate topic for discussion, rather than argue that here.

The question for debate in this topic is "Why would God make rules that allow for the subjugation and control of women by men? The current example of such subjugation in its extreme form deals with the morality police in Iran, punishing and allegedly even murdering women for not 'properly' covering their hair with the hijab.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11242372 ... ity-police
But historically similar rules have been endorsed by both Jewish and Christian scriptures as well.

[POI]

Subjugate: bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

By your given definition, God sanctioned this as well. God apparently ordered one tribe to take another conquered tribe's women as sex slaves.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #17]

You know as well as I do, and because I said so in a post yesterday, that women wanted to be ministers, preachers and even bishops. There was quite the usual rearguard battle about it but is now accepted. Except by the Vatican, which still applies the Rules. And i need hardly labour the problem with the various excuses I hear, justifying this denial of the rights of women to do whatever they feel capable of doing, from preaching, administering a see, flying an airliner, going out to work, and I have never bought the excuses (even sold to the women as enablers) that they like covering their heads, value the traditionalgender roles and fully accept the way things are in God's kingdom. It is one of my problems with religion that it facilitates wrongs, restrictions and abuses by appeal to God's authority.

Having men be preachers and not women, is not a rule that subjugates women.

Subjugate: bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

A rule that says Men can be preachers and Women cannot doesn't somehow subjugate women any more than it subjugates men that are not preachers.

To preach is to teach.

preach
Learn to pronounce
verb
publicly proclaim or teach (a religious message or belief).

Women are not allowed to teach men, but men can teach women.
It is to bring under dominion and control when men are allowed to teach women about religious matters, but women are not allowed to teach men about religious matters.
Preaching/Teaching in church:
Men = Yes
Women = No

We also have stories from the Bible where men were able to subjugate women via conquest. Sorry, not women in general, just the virgin girls. Why do so many gods have a thing for virgins I wonder? Seems so human (not a godly trate) to me.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #22]

Women can teach men math, science, history, etc. Women just cannot be priests.

[AquinasForGod]

Subjugate: bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

By your given definition, God sanctioned this as well. God apparently ordered one tribe to take another conquered tribe's women as sex slaves.

Without a verse, I will dismiss your claims.

[Diogenes]

Women can teach men math, science, history, etc. Women just cannot be priests.

Therefore, you completely agree God/the Church discriminate against women. This brings us back to the OP, "Why would a God discriminate against women? Why would a cosmic spirit, an asexual entity, discriminate against against women?

Once again this demonstrates this is not a God, but men posing as God that discriminate/subjugate women to an inferior status.

[POI]

Subjugate: bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

By your given definition, God sanctioned this as well. God apparently ordered one tribe to take another conquered tribe's women as sex slaves.

Without a verse, I will dismiss your claims.

You might still dismiss. I gave you a couple verses, in another thread, for which you have ignored, thus far ---> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40068&start=160

"Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.".

"But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #22]

Women can teach men math, science, history, etc. Women just cannot be priests.

Thank you for acknowledging the subjugation that takes place in the church, unlike in math, science and history.
Could you imagine if someone proposed that women shouldn't be allowed teach math or science? The uproar!

We have good and bad people on this planet, is the not allowing women to teach in the Catholic church an example of it taking religion in order for good people to bad things? Again, we allow women to teach math, science and history. Why would we not allow them to teach about the gods (or in this case, the Catholic god concept)?

This was also not addressed. Not sure if on purpose or by mistake:
"We also have stories from the Bible where men were able to subjugate women via conquest. Sorry, not women in general, just the virgin girls. Why do so many gods have a thing for virgins I wonder? Seems so human (not a godly trate) to me."

Numbers 31: 17-18 So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

[AgnosticBoy]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #22]

Women can teach men math, science, history, etc. Women just cannot be priests.

I'm open to accepting that not all gender roles are discriminatory if there is a good reason for those roles. For instance, I can agree that keeping women out of men's sports is a good idea because of the physical differences. Some offer reasons that can be disproven, like someone saying women shouldn't be teachers because they are intellectually inferior to men. If your reasons fall into the latter example, then your point is obviously invalid.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #22]

Women can teach men math, science, history, etc. Women just cannot be priests.

I'm open to accepting that not all gender roles are discriminatory if there is a good reason for those roles. For instance, I can agree that keeping women out of men's sports is a good idea because of the physical differences. Some offer reasons that can be disproven, like someone saying women shouldn't be teachers because they are intellectually inferior to men. If your reasons fall into the latter example, then your point is obviously invalid.

But how could that be my point when I said women can teach intellectual subjects? Why God chooses men as priests, I am not sure, but it is not because women cannot teach intellectual topics, because they can.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #22]

Women can teach men math, science, history, etc. Women just cannot be priests.

Thank you for acknowledging the subjugation that takes place in the church, unlike in math, science and history.
Could you imagine if someone proposed that women shouldn't be allowed teach math or science? The uproar!

We have good and bad people on this planet, is the not allowing women to teach in the Catholic church an example of it taking religion in order for good people to bad things? Again, we allow women to teach math, science and history. Why would we not allow them to teach about the gods (or in this case, the Catholic god concept)?

This was also not addressed. Not sure if on purpose or by mistake:
"We also have stories from the Bible where men were able to subjugate women via conquest. Sorry, not women in general, just the virgin girls. Why do so many gods have a thing for virgins I wonder? Seems so human (not a godly trate) to me."

Numbers 31: 17-18 So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

But it is not subjugation because being a priest is voluntary. Women just cannot volunteer for it. As to why this is the case, I do not know but I imagine it is because God knows all things and thus he knows what works the best for humans end. If male being priests works better than women also being priests, then it is so. It is not that men are better. It is that we humans work toward our good when we have male priests better than if we had female priests.

I didn't respond to your OT understanding because I don't think it is a historical account. It is a story. Also, the story doesn't say women are to be subjugated per se, but that if they are captured do not kill the virgin females. If anything, this shows that the culture thought highly of virgin females.