How does atheism supply meaning?

[Wootah]

We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

It's why I don't believe there are atheists. No one can truly hold that view and I certainly don't think any atheists on this site really drink that cup to the full. I tried. Once. A long time ago.

Obviously, people do hold this view, less the meaningless part that was added to poison the well.
For those that are uncomfortable with said view, there are religious options available to fulfill the need to have purpose supplied to them.

What I can't understand is how it is a struggle for some to find purpose in this life and then seem to project that on to others that don't suffer from such a thing. I personally treat this life as something special and have plenty of purpose, because for all I know, it is the only one we will get. The idea of this life being a test for some other life actually would make this life less meaningful as the next would become the true goal. Therefore, could it be argued that atheism supplies more meaning/value for this life than religions in general? Those that struggle to find purpose without religion would obviously not be able to see this and would then be susceptible making claims like we see above.

"No one can truly hold that view" would therefore simply be a projection.

How does atheism supply meaning?

[TRANSPONDER]

No .the whole rationalist worldview (including reason, science and materialism as well as humanism) is based on reason and evidence which is the very antithesis of a leap of faith. Ascribing unknowns to a god without decent evidence, never mind in spite of the evidence, is the epitome of a leap of faith.

We have to start from a position of atheistic nihilism. I think that's the only fair starting point since it wipes the slate clean of any and all so-called sources of meaning and anything else we might be taking for granted. And furthermore, it is our original state. i.e., if all meaning that we know of has been created by human beings, then human beings necessarily precede all meaning, and must have originally been in a state of meaninglessness (i.e., atheistic nihilism).

If we take this first step, then God and theism are on hiatus and so is everything else that would purport to provide meaning (reason and evidence included). Is that fair enough to level the playing field?

If so, my overarching point is that for anyone to get out of this original state, there must be a leap of faith. We've got to put our trust in something, be it in reason and evidence, God, or whatever else. That is step two and there is no other way. Any other approach would require something like a self-evident truth (but you agree reason and evidence are fallible), some kind of circular reference, or perhaps inductive reasoning (which is never perfect).

Just think about it: the very fact that you advocate so strongly on behalf of reason and evidence is because you have such faith in them. And rightly so, because of all the good things they provide. Reason and evidence are great at producing knowledge, and that knowledge-production power is what has in turn increased your faith to what it is... i.e., to something that barely even resembles faith anymore.

And while all of that makes perfect sense, it doesn't remove the fact that you put your trust in reason and evidence in the first place. That underneath it all there is still a leap of faith. No amount of results that follow from your choice changes that fact... Which means, like it or not, you are effectively in a religious relationship with reason and evidence, no different than a theist is with God. I'm not saying you are theist, but only that you share with theism this element of faith.

Otherwise again, please tell me what I'm missing here and how reason and evidence allow you to escape this trap.

Nihilism is a very loaded term. I would prefer to posit that moral and ethics did not originally exist, assuming one subscribes to an evolutionary process. If you don't accept evolution, then the argument is void. instinctive reaction to eat and avoid being eaten were encoded in the DNA as anything that didn't inherit them became extinct. These instincts became developed as a like and dislike, reaction. With the development of familial bonds and pack co - operation, a sense of identity and place in a group developed and by the time humans began to farm rather than hunt, social mores were already there to be socially evolved.

This is how it is looking and yes, morals developed from nothing much (nihilism if you must) and has been further puzzled out by man. It is not perfect and may never be perfect but I am not convinced that religion - though it can and does, rather idealistically, point to an ideal perfection (which despite Anselm does not thereby have to exist) has not notably done much to improve human social ethics better than humanist calls to treat our fellows better.

As to a 'religious' relationship with reason and evidence, quite simply they have made their case. I once put it like this: "Even if atheism was a religion or church, it would still be based on reason and evidence and would be logically more sound than theistic religions."

[theophile]

As to a 'religious' relationship with reason and evidence, quite simply they have made their case. I once put it like this: "Even if atheism was a religion or church, it would still be based on reason and evidence and would be logically more sound than theistic religions."

So that's basically what I suspected. 'Reason and evidence have made their case.' i.e., the results they produce have given you a lot of faith and confidence in them. Which means you have taken a leap of faith (no matter how small) and are in a religious relationship with them no different than a theist is with God. (I use the term 'religion' very loosely here... and note as well the shared root of being convinced and conviction...)

As such, you're playing the same game as a theist, the only difference being that you think reason and evidence are more worthy of faith than God. (Or you think God is not worthy of any faith at all, to be more precise.)

But if I took this further (to a point I made earlier) I don't think they are mutually exclusive. The door is wide open to a theism that takes all the good from reason and evidence (I'm by no means trying to disparage them), and that makes them even better by putting them in the service of God, and to achieving God's ends.

(The issue with reason and evidence on their own, IMO, is they don't provide any direction. They are more like tools, and like any other tool they can be used for a wide range of purposes and ends, but that's it. They can provide knowledge, sure, but they can't define the end itself, including what knowledge we need to produce and how we should apply it to get there... So unless you want to be nothing more than a hammer looking for a nail, and hammering in any random direction you find one, then the question becomes again: to what end? I think if you answer that we'll find even more faith in your worldview )

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

It doesn't and atheists just have to be okay with that as a consequence of their views.

Atheism is simply not believing theist claims. Full stop.

As to meaning, this atheist finds it in his offspring. In chasing the pretty thing around the pool table. In working my farm, and caring for the menagerie of critters on it. I find meaning in good music, and good liquor. In a good joke, or even the bad ones. I find meaning by contributing my food and funds to those in need. I find meaning in watching an ant work to bring food back to the nest. In birds singing proudly, or hawks flying menacingly. I find meaning in nigh on everything I see, touch, hear or taste. Not so much smell though, seems the cocaine and cigarettes but the kibosh on that.

But here on the site, I find the most meaning (hilarity) in watching self proud theists thinking their unprovable god belief somehow provides them some superior meaning to life.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
...The door is wide open to a theism that takes all the good from reason and evidence (I'm by no means trying to disparage them), and that makes them even better by putting them in the service of God, and to achieving God's ends.

Our task then becomes determining what ends it is God's hoping to get to.

Is there anyone among us who can show they know?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

It doesn't and atheists just have to be okay with that as a consequence of their views.

Atheism is simply not believing theist claims. Full stop.

As to meaning, this atheist finds it in his offspring. In chasing the pretty thing around the pool table. In working my farm, and caring for the menagerie of critters on it. I find meaning in good music, and good liquor. In a good joke, or even the bad ones. I find meaning by contributing my food and funds to those in need. I find meaning in watching an ant work to bring food back to the nest. In birds singing proudly, or hawks flying menacingly. I find meaning in nigh on everything I see, touch, hear or taste. Not so much smell though, seems the cocaine and cigarettes but the kibosh on that.

But here on the site, I find the most meaning (hilarity) in watching self proud theists thinking their unprovable god belief somehow provides them some superior meaning to life.

None of that is really meaning. It all ends just like you and no one will remember. One day, it will be as if you and no one ever existed.

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

It doesn't and atheists just have to be okay with that as a consequence of their views.

Atheism is simply not believing theist claims. Full stop.

As to meaning, this atheist finds it in his offspring. In chasing the pretty thing around the pool table. In working my farm, and caring for the menagerie of critters on it. I find meaning in good music, and good liquor. In a good joke, or even the bad ones. I find meaning by contributing my food and funds to those in need. I find meaning in watching an ant work to bring food back to the nest. In birds singing proudly, or hawks flying menacingly. I find meaning in nigh on everything I see, touch, hear or taste. Not so much smell though, seems the cocaine and cigarettes but the kibosh on that.

But here on the site, I find the most meaning (hilarity) in watching self proud theists thinking their unprovable god belief somehow provides them some superior meaning to life.

None of that is really meaning. It all ends just like you and no one will remember. One day, it will be as if you and no one ever existed.

You don't get decide what provides meaning to my life.

I can't begin to fathom the arrogance.

[OneWay]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

It doesn't and atheists just have to be okay with that as a consequence of their views.

Atheism is simply not believing theist claims. Full stop.

As to meaning, this atheist finds it in his offspring. In chasing the pretty thing around the pool table. In working my farm, and caring for the menagerie of critters on it. I find meaning in good music, and good liquor. In a good joke, or even the bad ones. I find meaning by contributing my food and funds to those in need. I find meaning in watching an ant work to bring food back to the nest. In birds singing proudly, or hawks flying menacingly. I find meaning in nigh on everything I see, touch, hear or taste. Not so much smell though, seems the cocaine and cigarettes but the kibosh on that.

But here on the site, I find the most meaning (hilarity) in watching self proud theists thinking their unprovable god belief somehow provides them some superior meaning to life.

None of that is really meaning. It all ends just like you and no one will remember. One day, it will be as if you and no one ever existed.

You don't get decide what provides meaning to my life.

I can't begin to fathom the arrogance.

Does your life have any meaning? If so, what?

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

It doesn't and atheists just have to be okay with that as a consequence of their views.

Atheism is simply not believing theist claims. Full stop.

As to meaning, this atheist finds it in his offspring. In chasing the pretty thing around the pool table. In working my farm, and caring for the menagerie of critters on it. I find meaning in good music, and good liquor. In a good joke, or even the bad ones. I find meaning by contributing my food and funds to those in need. I find meaning in watching an ant work to bring food back to the nest. In birds singing proudly, or hawks flying menacingly. I find meaning in nigh on everything I see, touch, hear or taste. Not so much smell though, seems the cocaine and cigarettes but the kibosh on that.

But here on the site, I find the most meaning (hilarity) in watching self proud theists thinking their unprovable god belief somehow provides them some superior meaning to life.

None of that is really meaning. It all ends just like you and no one will remember. One day, it will be as if you and no one ever existed.

You don't get decide what provides meaning to my life.

I can't begin to fathom the arrogance.

Does your life have any meaning? If so, what?

See above, where in your post you quoted my comments.

Good googly moogly, are all theists as dense as you two?

[OneWay]

[Replying to Wootah in post #1]

It doesn't and atheists just have to be okay with that as a consequence of their views.

Atheism is simply not believing theist claims. Full stop.

As to meaning, this atheist finds it in his offspring. In chasing the pretty thing around the pool table. In working my farm, and caring for the menagerie of critters on it. I find meaning in good music, and good liquor. In a good joke, or even the bad ones. I find meaning by contributing my food and funds to those in need. I find meaning in watching an ant work to bring food back to the nest. In birds singing proudly, or hawks flying menacingly. I find meaning in nigh on everything I see, touch, hear or taste. Not so much smell though, seems the cocaine and cigarettes but the kibosh on that.

But here on the site, I find the most meaning (hilarity) in watching self proud theists thinking their unprovable god belief somehow provides them some superior meaning to life.

None of that is really meaning. It all ends just like you and no one will remember. One day, it will be as if you and no one ever existed.

You don't get decide what provides meaning to my life.

I can't begin to fathom the arrogance.

Does your life have any meaning? If so, what?

See above, where in your post you quoted my comments.

Good googly moogly, are all theists as dense as you two?

Your reply is a reflection of you. I do not give any meaning to it.

[JoeyKnothead]

Your reply is a reflection of you. I do not give any meaning to it.

You ain't the first theist to reject the fact that atheists can find meaning in their life.