Who would the antichrist fool?

[Athetotheist]

"....and all the world wondered after the beast." (Rev. 13:3)

The antichrist is supposed to fool everyone----except true Christians----into worshipping him.

How well would that work out? Would he be able to fool.....

Jews? Judaism holds that only God is to be worshipped and that God does not take any physical form. Worship of any human being is considered blasphemous idolatry, and any wonders the antichrist performed would be interpreted as the workings of a false teacher sent by God to test the Jewish people.

Muslims? Islam also teaches that God takes no physical form, so they too would instantly peg the antichrist as a phony.

Feminist Pagans would reject any god-claim which didn't acknowledge the Goddess.

Atheists would suspect any miracle of being either a trick or a coincidence. An "image of the beast" brought to life could be taken for an artificial intelligence project.

The god-claim of the antichrist being fundamentally incompatible with so many beliefs, who would be left for the antichrist to fool?

[Clownboat]

Its not a false dilemma and the voice in your head is not a real voice with external knowledge it seems.

I'm not blaming demons. So that ones out.
This 'Him' has infact not threatened any authority of mine nor called me out or pointed to hypocrisy. So that ones out as well.
I didn't have defferent expectation of the Messiah. Also out.
The ONLY lame excuse that you provided that could be relevant to me would be the not wanting to hear/know the truth.

Therefore:
Either I hear the voice of the god that created the universe and lie about it because I don't want to hear truth.
Or
You are wrong and so is your ridiculous conclusion about me not wanting to hear this truth.

(You may have created a false dilemma and now blame me the victim, as I have addressed 100% of your supplied reasons for rejection).
Me not addressing things you failed to bring up is not a failure on my part nor is it to create a false dilemma. You are just like the rest of us it seems Tam... 100% human.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

I'm just going to have to refer you back to the previous post Clownboat. You have most definitely presented a false dilemma.

You are just like the rest of us it seems Tam... 100% human.

Lol... I was always 100% human. What a silly thing to say.

[Clownboat]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

I'm just going to have to refer you back to the previous post Clownboat. You have most definitely presented a false dilemma.

You are just like the rest of us it seems Tam... 100% human.

Lol... I was always 100% human. What a silly thing to say.

It's not as silly as you think Tam. You have claimed to hear the voice of Christ, claimed to have spirits guiding you and that your knowledge is a god's knowledge. The reality is, you are just like the rest of us which discounts your claims. It's more 'telling' than 'silly'.

"You may have created a false dilemma and now blame me the victim, as I have addressed 100% of your supplied reasons for rejection.
Me not addressing things you failed to bring up is not a failure on my part nor is it to create a false dilemma."

I have supplied reason for the claims I have made (why I'm addressing the only explanation you supplied that could reasonably include me). You simply repeat your claim and fail to address the supplied reasons. If you cannot refute them, that is not a reason to claim victory. It is a reason to ammend your thinking.

It would be a false statement to say that I hear the voice of a god, but reject it for not wanting to hear truth.
My question posed now several times to Tam reveals this, which is why she is unable to provide an answer. Her hands are tied as it shows that the only available excuse for my lack of hearing this voice is a poor one.

Perhaps there is some other reason that Tam failed to bring up for me not hearing from this voice? I'm sure that can be just as easily addressed, but cannot know until something is presented.

[tam]

Peace again to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to Clownboat in post #151]

I'm just going to have to refer you back to the previous post Clownboat. You have most definitely presented a false dilemma.

You are just like the rest of us it seems Tam... 100% human.

Lol... I was always 100% human. What a silly thing to say.

It's not as silly as you think Tam. You have claimed to hear the voice of Christ,

As all of His sheep do.

claimed to have spirits guiding you

Christ is the Spirit who guides and teaches His sheep.

The only thing I have said otherwise is about holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH) that can also remind a person of what they have been taught (As John spoke of at 1John 2:27), bear witness to the truth of something, etc.

and that your knowledge is a god's knowledge.

Now that is not something that I have claimed. I have claimed the opposite.

That is just how you 'read' it.

The reality is, you are just like the rest of us which discounts your claims.

Somehow you are under the mistaken impression that listening to Christ and hearing His voice is meant to make someone less human (or more than human, whatever is not 100% human).

That IS silly.

"You may have created a false dilemma and now blame me the victim, as I have addressed 100% of your supplied reasons for rejection.
Me not addressing things you failed to bring up is not a failure on my part nor is it to create a false dilemma."

Well here are some of the things I brought up:

I can tell you that I am not schizophrenic. I cannot prove that to you over the internet (I don't even know how I could prove that to you in person). But I am forty-seven years old. I have heard my Lord since I was a child (as far back as I can remember), though I did not know it was Him speaking. I though it was my own inner voice (and I used to think I was pretty smart because everything from this voice was wise - getting me to think critically, question claims, choose a wise and loving course of action). For example, in "Sunday school class", learning about hell and what comes after we die, I heard "how do they know what they are saying is true?" - and this taught me to question religious authorities from then on. It was not in my personal nature to question people in authority. Even into my thirties, it went against my nature to question authority - EXCEPT - religious authorities (so-called).

And the following:

It is not ridiculous at all. It (denying truth) happens every day, even on this very forum. I'm not speaking about non-believers per se: a non-beleiver is a non-believer, it does not always mean much to a non-believer what is written in a book or what others testify to (even if corroborated by that book or reason). But those who profess to believers? Show (many of) them something that contradicts what their religion teaches and what they believe- something right there in black and white before their very eyes- and then you can get the figurative version of: "Ahhhhh!!!! The truth!!!!! Run!!!!!"

Or "deny" instead of "run". And of course no one will call it the truth - because who claims to not want the truth, or even realizes that this is what their actions amount to?

But it is also true that people deny (or look away from) things that are true, but that they do not want to believe. Abuse, adultery, knowing someone you love is lying to you (but really hoping or wishing they are not).

Or how about denying the truth that shows you in a bad light, that you would have to be ashamed over? People do not like being in pain (some exceptions), or feeling ashamed, and some people think so highly of themselves, that they would automatically deny any truth that shows otherwise.

It is called denial. It happens every day.

And of course we can bring this back to the OP, because religion does deceive people every day, giving them an icon (of "Jesus", whatever version), who is nothing like the actual person, the Christ. Pretty hard to recognize His voice when all your beliefs and expectations have been formed by a religion that does not know Him or follow Him. In this way, religion does indeed stand in the way of people coming to Christ and to His Father <- some because they love that religion the most; some because they recognize the religion to be false but for some reason still think it accurately represented God. These things can happen to the point that many among those who profess to be believers do not even want to know Christ, truly, the real person He truly is. They just want their version of Him. Some just want to be told 'well done', 'good job', 'look how much better you are than those sinners', etc. Never mind what is TRUE.

We can know for a FACT that religion speaks lies and blasphemies against God. We can know this for a fact simply because there are so many competing religions that say different things about God and His Son, even just in Christendom; and of course we can hold up the saying and teachings and deeds of religion against the LIGHT (the LIGHT who is CHRIST).

Religion teaches the terrible lie that God is going to burn people alive in hell for all eternity. That message is sometimes softened as of late (because that message is driving people away, and that means less money, less power - so that it is not about truth, but rather about what 'works' to keep people in religion).

Religion teaches that everyone other than Christians are going to 'hell' (whatever version they teach of 'hell'). That too is a lie.

Religion persecutes and forces people to 'convert'. God does not do that. Or there would be no reason for this forum to exist.

Religion has tortured people in the name of God, sacrificed children in the name of God, gone to war in the name of God, etc, etc... though in actual fact men are using religion to get people to do these things. It is not in the name of God; it is in the name of religion.

Religion has abused (physically, spiritually, emotionally, sexually) children and covered that abuse up. God has nothing to do with that.

Religion (one in particular) teaches that Christ is actually Abaddon (Death, the Destroyer), and they outright claim Abaddon/Appolyon (the King of the Abyss, Death, the Destroyer) as their king.

So don't tell me that the Adversary does not know how to fool people into worshiping him via the beast. That last example is so obvious to me - Christ, the TRUE Christ, is the LIFE - but the people who have accepted it don't even SEE it.

viewtopic.php?p=1100927#p1100927


Some people recognize the falsehood in religion, but still connect that religion and its false teachings with Christ and God. Some people hear His call to come out of 'her' and to stop touching the unclean thing... and listen to His voice and do just that (even if they do not yet know He is the One calling them). Some people resist that call and attribute it to 'apostates' or 'demons' or whatever, because their religion has taught them FEAR... fear because their religion has FALSELY taught them that if they leave the religion, they are leaving Christ and God as well. THAT is an outright LIE.



In none of the above have I suggested that you heard His voice but pretended not to. Nor have I suggested that you heard His voice and then lied about.

I said that He speaks to everyone. I did not say that everyone hears and/or listens to His voice. I have said - or rather I have repeated His words - that His sheep listen to His voice, and even among His sheep, from other testimonies I have heard (including my own), many (or even most) did not realize it was Him speaking to them until much later.

Even Samuel heard his name being called in the middle of the night and mistook that voice for the priest Eli calling him. (1Samuel 3)


**

If you have anything to say about the actual topic (and the post I wrote ON the actual topic), feel free to address that. Otherwise, I am just not sure if there is much more to say on this particular matter.


Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #154]

And of course we can bring this back to the OP, because religion does deceive people every day, giving them an icon (of "Jesus", whatever version), who is nothing like the actual person, the Christ. Pretty hard to recognize His voice when all your beliefs and expectations have been formed by a religion that does not know Him or follow Him. In this way, religion does indeed stand in the way of people coming to Christ and to His Father <- some because they love that religion the most; some because they recognize the religion to be false but for some reason still think it accurately represented God. These things can happen to the point that many among those who profess to be believers do not even want to know Christ, truly, the real person He truly is. They just want their version of Him. Some just want to be told 'well done', 'good job', 'look how much better you are than those sinners', etc. Never mind what is TRUE.

This way of thinking could be a symptom of projection.

I prefer to think that YHVH is interested in the personality rather than being distracted by the outward performance, and is not judging in the finger-pointing fashion

If you have anything to say about the actual topic (and the post I wrote ON the actual topic), feel free to address that. Otherwise, I am just not sure if there is much more to say on this particular matter.

The actual topic is "Who would the antichrist fool?"

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #154]

And of course we can bring this back to the OP, because religion does deceive people every day, giving them an icon (of "Jesus", whatever version), who is nothing like the actual person, the Christ. Pretty hard to recognize His voice when all your beliefs and expectations have been formed by a religion that does not know Him or follow Him. In this way, religion does indeed stand in the way of people coming to Christ and to His Father <- some because they love that religion the most; some because they recognize the religion to be false but for some reason still think it accurately represented God. These things can happen to the point that many among those who profess to be believers do not even want to know Christ, truly, the real person He truly is. They just want their version of Him. Some just want to be told 'well done', 'good job', 'look how much better you are than those sinners', etc. Never mind what is TRUE.

This way of thinking could be a symptom of projection.

I prefer to think

Case and point.


Peace still.

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #156]

Quote-mining.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #156]

Quote-mining.

Now that is something I am more than content to let the reader decide for themselves.

[Clownboat]

and that your knowledge is a god's knowledge.

Now that is not something that I have claimed. I have claimed the opposite.

Readers, please decide for yourself.
Post 84: Copy/paste: "This is something my Lord has confirmed to me, so that it is not my knowledge or wisdom, but rather, His."

That is just how you 'read' it.

We all just read an example dear Tam where you infact have claimed knowledge that you have as not your own, but that of a god concept.

It was a still small voice in my head that reminded me of this claim you made. Do you think that was your Christ reminding me?