A Logical Disproof of a Biblical Type God

[JohnJubinsky]

For your consideration the following is a purely logical disproof of a Biblical type god that is founded in the fact that such a god is supposed to be perfect in goodness while freely desiring to be worshiped. It involves only three definitions, each of which is self-evident. One is of a being, a second is of worship and the third is of a Biblical type god.

The definition of a being is that of a perceiver who cannot know absolutely whether its perceptions have anything to do with an external reality. Of course Descartes defined himself as this type of entity on the basis of obviousness. Very exactly, in that we have no way to test whether our perceptions have anything to do with an external reality we cannot know whether they do. Moreover, our experiences suggest that when we dream or hallucinate we internally generate perceptions that seem very real but have nothing to do with an external reality. Accordingly, especially with empirical suggestions that we sometimes internally generate perceptions that seem very real but have nothing to do with an external reality, we cannot rule out that it is our nature to do so all of the time. Therefore, our definition of a being is self-evident.

The definition of worship is great veneration together with subscribing absolutely to the existence of its object. In that one cannot worship something without subscribing absolutely to its existence this definition of worship is entirely representative of the actual meaning of the word.

The definition of a Biblical type god is that of a perceiver who is perfect in goodness and holds that it is right for others to worship it. This definition is entirely consistent with the full definition of a Biblical type god.

We shall proceed with a logical technique called reductio ad absurdum. That is, we shall first assume that a Biblical type god exists and from this using only logic arrive at a self-contradictory (absurd) proposition. This will leave only that a Biblical type god does not exist and the disproof will be complete. As such, assume that a Biblical type god exists.

By definition it holds that it is right for others to worship it. By the definition of worship they cannot worship it unless they subscribe absolutely to its existence. Accordingly, the Biblical type god holds that it is right for others to subscribe absolutely to its existence. However, they are beings. By definition it is impossible for them to subscribe absolutely to the existence of anything that is supposed to be part of an external reality. Therefore, the Biblical type god holds that it is right for others to do something that is impossible. At the same time, by definition it is perfect in goodness. In this it does not hold that it is right for others to do something that is impossible. Consequently, we have both that the Biblical type god does and does not hold that it is right for others to do something that is impossible.

This is the absurdity. Our only logical alternative is that a Biblical type god does not exist.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum. (That is, the disproof is complete.)

[Tcg]

[Replying to JohnJubinsky in post #1]

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[Miles]

The definition of worship is great veneration together with subscribing absolutely to the existence of its object. In that one cannot worship something without subscribing absolutely to its existence this definition of worship is entirely representative of the actual meaning of the word.

Just as a side note, I don't believe there is any verse in the Bible where god demands, asks, or suggests that he be worshiped.


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[JohnJubinsky]

Very respectfully the first commandment demonstrates that a Biblical type god desires to be worshiped.

[Miles]

Very respectfully the first commandment demonstrates that a Biblical type god desires to be worshiped.

Well let's take a look at god's first commandment.

Exodus 20:3

(American Standard Version)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me

(Darby Translation)
Thou shalt have no other gods before m

(English Standard Version)
“You shall have no other gods before me.

(Evangelical Heritage Version)
You shall have no other gods beside me.

(1599 Geneva Bible)
Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

(Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Do not have other gods besides Me.

(International Standard Version)
You are to have no other gods as a substitute for me.

(King James version)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

(Lexham English Bible)
“There shall be for you no other gods before me.

(The Message)
No other gods, only me.

(New American Standard Bible)
“You shall have no other gods before Me.

(New Catholic Bible)
You shall not have other gods instead of me.

(New Life Version)
“Have no gods other than Me.

(Orthodox Jewish Bible)
Thou shalt have no elohim acherim in My presence.

(Revised Standard Version)
“You shall have no other gods before me.

(New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition)
you shall have no other gods before me.

(Tree of Life Version)
“You shall have no other gods before Me.

(World English Bible)
“You shall have no other gods before me.

(Wycliffe Bible)
Thou shalt not have alien gods before me.

(Young's Literal Translation)
`Thou hast no other Gods before Me.

Etc.

Etc.

Nary one mention, or even a hint that god desires to be worshiped.


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[JohnJubinsky]

You omitted part of it. More completely it says "I am the Lord thy God......Thou shalt have no other gods before me......for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God......". Lord means master or ruler.

[Miles]

You omitted part of it.

Actually I didn't. The first commandment only takes up the third verse of Exodus 20. (The preceding second verse of Exodus 20 tells how god brought the children of Israel out of Egypt. The following fourth verse of Exodus 20 (the second commandment) talks about making graven images. )

Here, from the King James Bible, the First Commandment:

Exodus 20:1-4
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

More completely it says "I am the Lord thy God......Thou shalt have no other gods before me......for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God......". Lord means master or ruler.

But this would be more than the first commandment, which unjustifiably extends your claim in post 4 that says: "Very respectfully the first commandment demonstrates that a Biblical type god desires to be worshiped."


Now, I looked real hard and even reread your excerpted verse above, but couldn't find a thing that even suggested "the first commandment demonstrates that a Biblical type god desires to be worshiped.

Please point out where god, in effect, says, "I want to be worshiped." Thank you.


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[JohnJubinsky]

We might have to agree to disagree on this one. My position is that his saying he is the LORD is tantamount to saying that he should be worshiped.

[JohnJubinsky]

My position is that his so emphatically saying that he is the LORD thy God demonstrates that he wants to be worshiped especially in association with his position that he is jealous about anyone putting something else before him.

[Miles]

We might have to agree to disagree on this one. My position is that his saying he is the LORD is tantamount to saying that he should be worshiped.

Then this would strictly be your characterization alone because those who deal with words, dictionaries, don't recognize such a connection at all. "Worship," or any of its forms, is never mentioned in conjunction with "lord."

lord
/lôrd/

noun: lord; plural noun: lords
someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler.
"lord of the sea"

source: Oxford Languages Dictionary
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lord
noun
ˈlȯrd 
1: one having power and authority over others:
...a: a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due

2:capitalized
...a: god
...b: Jesus

source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary
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Lord
noun [ U ]
us
/lɔrd/
(in the Christian and Jewish religions) God or Jesus

source; Cambridge Dictionary
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Definition of 'lord'
(lɔrd IPA Pronunciation Guide )

2. proper noun
In the Christian church, people refer to God and to Jesus Christ as the Lord

source: Collins English Dictionary
____________________________

lord /ˈloɚd/ noun
plural lords
Lord [singular]
2 Lord
a — used as a name for God or Jesus Christ

source: The Britannica Dictionary
____________________________

lord [ lawrd ]

noun
1 a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler.

2 a person who exercises authority from property rights; an owner of land, houses, etc.

3 a person who is a leader or has great influence in a chosen profession: the great lords of banking.

4 a feudal superior; the proprietor of a manor.

5 a titled nobleman or peer; a person whose ordinary appellation contains by courtesy the title Lord or some higher title.

6 Lords, the Lords Spiritual and Lords Temporal comprising the House of Lords

7 Lord, (in Britain)
.... the title of certain high officials (used with some other title, name, or the like):

8 Lord, the Supreme Being; God.

9 Lord, Christianity. the Savior, Jesus Christ.

10 Astrology. a planet having dominating influence.

source: Dictionary.com

In which case——making up your own meanings——there is nothing more to discuss.

Have a good day

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