Where's God?

[POI]

Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:

P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)

At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.

A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).

[JoeyKnothead]

Debating itself suggests objective truths. It would be pointless, and it would be self refuting, to debate if there is only subjective truths. Proving someone wrong, like showing something objectively, would refute subjectivism. Even by you saying "let's watch it be shown subjective", you are trying to show universally that something is subjective, it would be an objective claim.

Fuss all ya want, your declaration that liberty is an objective notion will only ever be shown to be your subjective opinion.

It is to bad you just ignore this post. Logically if truth is subjective, things dont make sense and there is a lot of contradiction and self refuting nonsense.

So you create a god, put confusing subjective concepts in that box, and lo and behold, the god converter pumps you out an 'objective' so you don't have to use your subjective reasoning.

[Difflugia]

It would be pointless, and it would be self refuting, to debate if there is only subjective truths.

That's trivially false. Debate merely assumes a shared point of view, even if it's subjective. Even if Christianity is objectively false, there are still meaningful (dare I say, "pointed?") debates going on in Theology & Doctrine, where interpretation of the Bible is treated as the final arbiter of reality itself.

[Difflugia]

In many cases conviction only requires "beyond a doubt" to inprisonate someone.

Even then, it's "beyond a reasonable doubt." If someone is convicted of a crime on the strength of being the only natural agent able to commit the crime, someone may assert a doubt by claiming that Jesus did it ("It's possible! Prove he didn't, why don't you?"). Nobody considers that a reasonable doubt, however ("C'mon, even though I pretend in church that possible and probable are the same thing, we all know that reality doesn't work that way!")

[brunumb]

What is your understanding of the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I suppose any ought would go here... "you ought to treat others with respect", "you ought to respect elders", "you ought to wake up and maintain your life", etc...

As for the physical world and universe goes, I suppose if you apply the laws of physics you get ought's. If this asteroid hits this planet it ought to move it. Or earth ought to sustain life. etc...

What has any of that got to do with the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

[Shem Yoshi]

What is your understanding of the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I suppose any ought would go here... "you ought to treat others with respect", "you ought to respect elders", "you ought to wake up and maintain your life", etc...

As for the physical world and universe goes, I suppose if you apply the laws of physics you get ought's. If this asteroid hits this planet it ought to move it. Or earth ought to sustain life. etc...

What has any of that got to do with the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I dont know how that would not have to do with the purpose of us...

[Shem Yoshi]

In many cases conviction only requires "beyond a doubt" to inprisonate someone.

Even then, it's "beyond a reasonable doubt." If someone is convicted of a crime on the strength of being the only natural agent able to commit the crime, someone may assert a doubt by claiming that Jesus did it ("It's possible! Prove he didn't, why don't you?"). Nobody considers that a reasonable doubt, however ("C'mon, even though I pretend in church that possible and probable are the same thing, we all know that reality doesn't work that way!")

Judgement based on "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesnt negate the fact that a crime occurred that went against law...

[Difflugia]

Judgement based on "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesnt negate the fact that a crime occurred that went against law...

That's why I didn't say that it did. Thanks, though.

[brunumb]

What is your understanding of the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I suppose any ought would go here... "you ought to treat others with respect", "you ought to respect elders", "you ought to wake up and maintain your life", etc...

As for the physical world and universe goes, I suppose if you apply the laws of physics you get ought's. If this asteroid hits this planet it ought to move it. Or earth ought to sustain life. etc...

What has any of that got to do with the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I dont know how that would not have to do with the purpose of us...

Well that was very much a Claytons* answer.

*From a non-alcoholic drink called Claytons named after the Clayton brothers and promoted in Australia and New Zealand in the 1980s as “the drink you have when you′re not having a drink”.

And if you don't know how that works, it's the answer you give when you don't have an answer.

[Shem Yoshi]

What is your understanding of the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I suppose any ought would go here... "you ought to treat others with respect", "you ought to respect elders", "you ought to wake up and maintain your life", etc...

As for the physical world and universe goes, I suppose if you apply the laws of physics you get ought's. If this asteroid hits this planet it ought to move it. Or earth ought to sustain life. etc...

What has any of that got to do with the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?

I dont know how that would not have to do with the purpose of us...

Well that was very much a Claytons* answer.

*From a non-alcoholic drink called Claytons named after the Clayton brothers and promoted in Australia and New Zealand in the 1980s as “the drink you have when you′re not having a drink”.

And if you don't know how that works, it's the answer you give when you don't have an answer.

I dont know how to answer your question "What has any of that got to do with the purpose of us, the world and the entire universe?"... It seems to me that an ought is a purpose... "you ought to treat other as you are treated", or even "you ought to live for God"... "you ought to get married and have kids"... Whether or not they are objectively true can be debated, however whether or not they are an explanation of a purpose for life doesnt seem like it is a debatable subject... If you disagree feel free to establish why.

[brunumb]

[Replying to Shem Yoshi in post #129]

purpose
/ˈpəːpəs/
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noun
noun: purpose; plural noun: purposes

1.
the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

ought
/ɔːt/
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verb
modal verb: ought

1.
used to indicate duty or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.
"they ought to respect the law"
used to indicate a desirable or expected state.
"he ought to be able to take the initiative"
used to give or ask for advice.