Is it right to hold all organisms accountable for their choices?

[Compassionist]

Biological organisms don't choose the genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences they are endowed with from conception. Is it right to hold them responsible for their choices given the fact that they don't choose the variables that determine their choices? If I had someone else's genes, environments, nutrients and experiences from their conception until their death, would I not have made the same choices they did? For example, if I had the genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences of a tiger, would I not have behaved the same way as that specific tiger? Are all organisms equally accountable for their behaviour? Should all species be subjected to the same laws and penalties for breaking the laws? If I had the genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences of Joseph Stalin, would I not have made the same choices he did in his lifetime? Are we not all prisoners of causality who live inevitable lives and die inevitable deaths? Is it just to reward or punish prisoners of causality for their choices? How can we know the answers to these questions with 100% certainty?

I care so much about all living things, but I am totally powerless to save all living things from suffering, injustice, and death. I want to make all living things forever happy, but no matter how much I try to do it, I can't do it. I have merely postponed some deaths through my actions and inactions (e.g. by donating blood, being a vegan, and not killing sentient organisms) but they will ultimately still die. There is an infinite gap between what I want to do and what I actually do.

Here are some things that I want to do but can't do due to lack of ability:

1. Go back in time and prevent all suffering, death, and injustice.
2. Make all living things all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful, and forever happy. This way no one will ever be harmed by anyone or anything.

Here are some things I do (or will do) even though I don't want to do them:

1. Breathe
2. Eat
3. Drink
4. Sleep
5. Dream
7. Pee
8. Poo
9. Fart
10. Burp
11. Sneeze
12. Cough
13. Age
14. Get ill
15. Get injured
16. Sweat
17. Cry
18. Snore
19. Suffer
20. Die

I am clearly not a free agent with free will. I am truly a prisoner of causality who does things he does not want to do and can't do what he wants to do. We are all prisoners of causality who are thrust into existence without consent in a horrific and unjust world. I wish I was never conceived but I can't choose to prevent my existence.

[Miles]

Is it right to hold all organisms accountable for their choices?

In as much as choices and choosing are illusions, no it isn't right to hold any organism, including humans, accountable for what they do. That is, require or expect them to justify their actions or decisions. Organisms do what they do because they are unable to do any differently.

Biological organisms don't choose the genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences they are endowed with from conception. Is it right to hold them responsible for their choices given the fact that they don't choose the variables that determine their choices?

Well, all organisms are responsible for what they do in the sense of establishing the "actor": Bob did it, not Bruce.

If I had someone else's genes, environments, nutrients and experiences from their conception until their death, would I not have made the same choices they did?

Unless everything about them was exactly the same you would not.

For example, if I had the genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences of a tiger, would I not have behaved the same way as that specific tiger?

Again, unless everything about them was exactly the same you would not.

Are all organisms equally accountable for their behaviour?

In the sense of justifying their behavior, no. All organisms, including humans, do what they do because they are unable do any differently.

Should all species be subjected to the same laws and penalties for breaking the laws?

"All" species? Is there some species other than Homo sapiens who is subject to the same laws and penalties for breaking the laws?

I care so much about all living things, but I am totally powerless to save all living things from suffering, injustice, and death. I want to make all living things forever happy, but no matter how much I try to do it, I can't do it. I have merely postponed some deaths through my actions and inactions (e.g. by donating blood, being a vegan, and not killing sentient organisms) but they will ultimately still die. There is an infinite gap between what I want to do and what I actually do.

Until one recognizes their limitations it will always be an issue. Here's hoping this will dawn on you sooner than later.

I am clearly not a free agent with free will.

Exactly, which means choices and choosing, as well as deciding are meaningless concepts. A truth that applies to all organisms.

I am truly a prisoner of causality who does things he does not want to do and can't do what he wants to do.

Perhaps in the future your wants and abilities will start to mesh and give you a more satisfactory life.

We are all prisoners of causality who are thrust into existence without consent in a horrific and unjust world.

Well not all of us. Having put my deterministic existence in perspective, I'm living a very good life without feeling I'm a prisoner of causality who is thrust into existence without consent in a horrific and unjust world. Here's hoping you find yourself doing the same in the near future.

.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

Thank you ever so much for your thoughtful reply. Here are some examples of non-human organisms punished by humans for breaking laws: https://www.topic.com/when-good-critters-go-bad There are also examples in the Bible https://www.bibleoutlines.com/blog/exod ... rty-rights where humans kill non-humans to exact retribution.

I am pleased that you are living a very good life. If I had your genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences, I am sure I, too, would be living a very good life. However, given the fact my genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences are different from yours, I am living a life full of suffering. I am not going to burden you with the details of everything I have experienced thus far. Here is a poem to sum it all up:

Life as I know it
Might is right,
Adapt or die.
The world works thus.
The evil prospers,
The innocent perishes.
Doomed we are,
To suffer,
And to die.

[Compassionist]

Here are some examples of suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[Purple Knight]

Is it right to hold them responsible for their choices given the fact that they don't choose the variables that determine their choices?

No, it is not right. But this goes both ways and when I punish somebody for breaking my leg, you can't hold me accountable for that either. The fact that people will punish others for choices that hurt them is just another one of those things that happens, because nobody really controls their own self.

People punishing other people is not somehow excluded from your realisation here that people are not accountable for their actions. Your realisation is Truth with a capital T and nothing is excluded from it.

I fart because my body wants to release air that is painful and bloaty. I punish the guy who stabbed me because I don't want to get stabbed again. He's not at fault for stabbing me but neither am I at fault for punishing him for it.

If you want to create a moral system where the stabby guy is not accountable and the punishing guy is accountable, that is going to be the most noble and enlightened system. But it's going to take a lot of work to make it consistent.

You could start with the fact that the punishing guy knows hurting another person is wrong, otherwise he would not be punishing for stabbing. And maybe stabby guy doesn't know that. You can't prove that he does know it's wrong like you can for punishing guy.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #5]

I agree that neither the stabber, nor the victim of stabbing who then takes revenge are guilty. Tit for tat is common among organisms.