Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?
For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
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Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #351So if a patron is unresistant, (s)he has no conditions to meet?AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:44 pm Being able to resist grace has nothing to do with if the grace is conditional or not. He gives grace unconditionally to everyone. We can choose to resist that or not.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #352[Replying to POI in post #351]
He only has to not resist the grace. And by doing so he opens himself up to accepting Christ. God is giving you his grace right now, even though you did not do anything to earn it. The least you resist it, the more you will be pulled to Christ.
He only has to not resist the grace. And by doing so he opens himself up to accepting Christ. God is giving you his grace right now, even though you did not do anything to earn it. The least you resist it, the more you will be pulled to Christ.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #353So grace is conditional then, right?AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:39 pm [Replying to POI in post #351]
He only has to not resist the grace. And by doing so he opens himself up to accepting Christ. God is giving you his grace right now, even though you did not do anything to earn it. The least you resist it, the more you will be pulled to Christ.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #354No.POI wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:49 pmSo grace is conditional then, right?AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:39 pm [Replying to POI in post #351]
He only has to not resist the grace. And by doing so he opens himself up to accepting Christ. God is giving you his grace right now, even though you did not do anything to earn it. The least you resist it, the more you will be pulled to Christ.
Conditional: subject to one or more conditions or requirements being met; made or granted on certain terms.
Suppose I wish to hand you a glass of water. It has nothing to do with anything you have ever done. You cannot earn my gratitude. I decide to hand you a glass of water because I want to. That is unconditional. There is no condition you have to meet.
But because you have freewill, you can reject it. You can knock it out of my hands as I hand it to you. You can turn your back to me and ignore my offer.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #355So you do not need to be baptized, repent of sin, etc?AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:19 am No.
Conditional: subject to one or more conditions or requirements being met; made or granted on certain terms.
I agree here, but this is not what I'm talking about. See below...AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:19 am Suppose I wish to hand you a glass of water. It has nothing to do with anything you have ever done. You cannot earn my gratitude. I decide to hand you a glass of water because I want to. That is unconditional. There is no condition you have to meet.
This analogy fails. God is not merely trying to hand you a glass of water, and you either take it or swat it away. Conditions still need to be met. See above in blue.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:19 am But because you have freewill, you can reject it. You can knock it out of my hands as I hand it to you. You can turn your back to me and ignore my offer.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #356Ain't unresistent a condition, he rhetoricallied.POI wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:01 pmSo if a patron is unresistant, (s)he has no conditions to meet?AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:44 pm Being able to resist grace has nothing to do with if the grace is conditional or not. He gives grace unconditionally to everyone. We can choose to resist that or not.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #357[Replying to POI in post #355]
Thus, grace is not conditional, salvation is.
To receive God's grace, no. To be saved, yes.So you do not need to be baptized, repent of sin, etc?
Thus, grace is not conditional, salvation is.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #358According to your belief system, you are either saved, or you are not.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:58 pm [Replying to POI in post #355]
To receive God's grace, no. To be saved, yes.So you do not need to be baptized, repent of sin, etc?
Thus, grace is not conditional, salvation is.
Thus, to be 'saved', is your answer D)?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #359To be saved is conditional, yes, but grace is not.POI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:42 pmAccording to your belief system, you are either saved, or you are not.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:58 pm [Replying to POI in post #355]
To receive God's grace, no. To be saved, yes.So you do not need to be baptized, repent of sin, etc?
Thus, grace is not conditional, salvation is.
Thus, to be 'saved', is your answer D)?
God gives his grace to all people. If we don't resist the grace, then it strengthens our faith. The stronger our faith the better our works. This is why all three are necessary for salvation, but that necessity doesn't entail that grace is conditional.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #360AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:43 amTo be saved is conditional, yes, but grace is not, thus F.POI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:42 pmAccording to your belief system, you are either saved, or you are not.AquinasForGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:58 pm [Replying to POI in post #355]
To receive God's grace, no. To be saved, yes.So you do not need to be baptized, repent of sin, etc?
Thus, grace is not conditional, salvation is.
Thus, to be 'saved', is your answer D)?
God gives his grace to all people. If we don't resist the grace, then it strengthens our faith. The stronger our faith the better our works. This is why all three are necessary for salvation, but that necessity doesn't entail that grace is conditional.