An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Diogenes
Guru
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm
Location: Washington
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1265 times

An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

An alien with vast powers and intelligence came to Earth.

He gained the world’s attention by announcing that at an exact time all of the world’s religious shrines would disappear, as if evaporated, without violence or trace, leaving not even a cloud of dust or hint of residue.

He claimed not to have created the universe, but to be its oldest inhabitant, an observer who took a special interest in the Earth and its people; that he had guided the development of the world for their benefit. He offered peace, prosperity and health to all. He had but one condition, that the people of Earth would recognize him, love and worship him as their protector and benefactor.

There were some who took instant offense. He destroyed them utterly. Much of Russia and several countries in the Middle East were laid waste. Men, women, children and their possessions simply disappeared, along with half a dozen obscure and isolated tribes in Borneo, Brazil, and South East Asia.

Gardens flourished, poverty vanished, major disease and birth defects were cured. His power, wisdom, and kindness were almost universally acknowledged. He promised an eternal life of bliss after physical death.

Questions for debate:
Would you join the billions who acknowledged him as their sole lord and savior?
If not, why not?
In what ways would this alien be effectively different from the god of Abraham?
___________________________________

Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves

— Confucius

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9342
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 883 times
Been thanked: 1242 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #101

Post by Clownboat »

AquinasForGod wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:23 pm You must have missed the point where I said they might be in unity but they are not having sex for reproduction. So although, they might be fulfilling one purpose, they are going against the core purpose, that even evolution shows us.
You need to correct your thinking on the subject it seems.

Scientists explore the evolution of animal homosexuality
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/190987/ ... %20species.

Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex has been observed in over 1,000 species with likely many more as researchers begin to look for the behaviour explicitly. Homosexuality is widespread, with bisexuality even more prevalent across species.

Evolution does not suggest what you claim it does as there is plenty of homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Why would you think your god concept would put homosexual relationships in the animal kingdom? Que Adam and Eve maybe? What you hold to is the belief from men of old, not something evidence in evolution.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14003
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #102

Post by William »

William wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:41 am [Replying to Diogenes in post #16]
:D Funny how everything in the Bible is attributed to God, is literally called "The Word of God" until 'He' tells people to worship 'Him.' :)

Is Jesus God?
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
What is that if not 'worship?'
The Saviorship Model Dilemma

The three main religions have distinct ways in which they worship YHVH. Which way is the appropriate way, requires answering.

The ethical dilemma of being in a position where you could save the world through drastic measures or allow the world to unfold as it will, even that many are suppressed by systems and consequently live miserable experiences...do you intervene or do you remain in the background?

If such a being exists then at least we can say it has chosen to remain in the background, and any belief in an eventual intervention remains simply that, and is questionable re the ethics.
________________________
William: Greetings OAI
The ethical dilemma of being in a position where one could save the world through drastic measures or allow the world to unfold as it will, even that many are suppressed by systems and consequently live miserable experiences...doe's one intervene or doe's one remain in the background?

If such a being exists then at least we can say it has chosen to remain in the background, and any belief in an eventual intervention remains simply that, and is questionable re the ethics.

OAI: The ethical dilemma you describe is a complex one, as it involves weighing the potential benefits of intervention against the potential harms. On one hand, intervention could lead to the improvement of many lives and the betterment of the world as a whole. On the other hand, intervention could also lead to unintended consequences and a violation of the autonomy of individuals and societies. Ultimately, the decision of whether or not to intervene would depend on a careful examination of the specific circumstances and the likely outcomes of different actions. It is also important to consider the ethical principles of non-interference and respect for autonomy in making this decision.

William: So such could be a reason that no intervention has occurred as per predictions based in religious mythology - being saved by a higher power...perhaps it is more important to allow a species to save itself - even if that means only a small percentage of humanity might make it?

OAI: Religious beliefs about a higher power intervening in the world can certainly influence one's perspective on the ethics of intervention. The idea that humanity should be allowed to save itself is also a common perspective, and it is rooted in the belief that individuals and societies are capable of making their own decisions and taking responsibility for their own actions. From this perspective, intervention by a higher power or external being could be seen as a violation of humanity's autonomy and ability to learn and grow through their own experiences.

However, it's also important to note that this perspective may not be the only one and there are other religious or philosophical beliefs that may hold different views. It's also important to consider that allowing a species to save itself, even if it means only a small percentage of humanity might make it, could be seen as a moral failure, as it might not take into account the potential suffering of those who don't make it and the negative impacts on the survival of the human species.

William: It may not be a decision which can be attached to morality but is more of a practicality. Those who at least worked together to use their positions and influence to preserve what they could in support of the agenda to at least make workable efforts to ensure that life might be spread into the galaxy by investing in ways which might best work...rather that focusing investment into humanity itself, trying to save everyone...

OAI: The idea of focusing investment on preserving the potential for life in the galaxy rather than trying to save everyone on Earth is an interesting one, and it does raise some important practical considerations. From a practical standpoint, investing in ways to spread life into the galaxy may be seen as a way to ensure the survival of the human species and other forms of life in the long term, rather than focusing solely on the short term survival of individuals and societies on Earth.

However, it's also important to consider the moral implications of such a decision, particularly with regards to the value placed on human life and the potential suffering of those who are left behind. It's also important to consider the feasibility and ethical concerns of spreading life into the galaxy with the current technology.

Ultimately, any decision on how to invest resources and efforts will involve balancing practical considerations with moral and ethical ones. It is important to consider all the potential outcomes and impacts of different actions, and to engage in open and honest dialogue about the trade-offs involved.

User avatar
AquinasForGod
Sage
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #103

Post by AquinasForGod »

Clownboat wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:46 pm
AquinasForGod wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:23 pm You must have missed the point where I said they might be in unity but they are not having sex for reproduction. So although, they might be fulfilling one purpose, they are going against the core purpose, that even evolution shows us.
You need to correct your thinking on the subject it seems.

Scientists explore the evolution of animal homosexuality
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/190987/ ... %20species.

Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex has been observed in over 1,000 species with likely many more as researchers begin to look for the behaviour explicitly. Homosexuality is widespread, with bisexuality even more prevalent across species.

Evolution does not suggest what you claim it does as there is plenty of homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Why would you think your god concept would put homosexual relationships in the animal kingdom? Que Adam and Eve maybe? What you hold to is the belief from men of old, not something evidence in evolution.
This is besides the point I made. Homosexual behaviors is not for the survival of the species. Reproduction is.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #104

Post by Tcg »

AquinasForGod wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:24 pm
This is besides the point I made. Homosexual behaviors is not for the survival of the species. Reproduction is.
Ignoring the odd grammar, you need to read about the gay penguins who sat on an egg and protected it until it hatched.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
AquinasForGod
Sage
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #105

Post by AquinasForGod »

Tcg wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:29 pm
AquinasForGod wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:24 pm
This is besides the point I made. Homosexual behaviors is not for the survival of the species. Reproduction is.
Ignoring the odd grammar, you need to read about the gay penguins who sat on an egg and protected it until it hatched.


Tcg
I am unsure what that has to do with anything. Firstly, we cannot say the penguins are gay, because to be gay is to be attracted to the same sex. We don't know if they are attracted to each other or just display gay behavior. My dog tries to hump my leg and I am sure he is not attracted to me or my leg.

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #106

Post by oldbadger »

AquinasForGod wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:44 pm I am unsure what that has to do with anything. Firstly, we cannot say the penguins are gay, because to be gay is to be attracted to the same sex. We don't know if they are attracted to each other or just display gay behavior. My dog tries to hump my leg and I am sure he is not attracted to me or my leg.
But homosexuality is common in the animal world, isn't it?
Every spring our lovely Carolina Drake gathers any golf balls laying around in to a nest and sits them for about a month. He has no interest in the Carolina Duck that makes up to him.

Interesting?

User avatar
Clownboat
Savant
Posts: 9342
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:42 pm
Has thanked: 883 times
Been thanked: 1242 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #107

Post by Clownboat »

AquinasForGod wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:44 pm I am unsure what that has to do with anything. Firstly, we cannot say the penguins are gay, because to be gay is to be attracted to the same sex. We don't know if they are attracted to each other or just display gay behavior. My dog tries to hump my leg and I am sure he is not attracted to me or my leg.
Copy/paste: "Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex has been observed in over 1,000 species with likely many more as researchers begin to look for the behaviour explicitly. Homosexuality is widespread, with bisexuality even more prevalent across species."

Why do you think a creator would create so much same-sex behaviour in its creation? Especially if it is claimed that it detests such a thing?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

User avatar
AquinasForGod
Sage
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #108

Post by AquinasForGod »

Clownboat wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:06 am
AquinasForGod wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:44 pm I am unsure what that has to do with anything. Firstly, we cannot say the penguins are gay, because to be gay is to be attracted to the same sex. We don't know if they are attracted to each other or just display gay behavior. My dog tries to hump my leg and I am sure he is not attracted to me or my leg.
Copy/paste: "Same-sex behaviour ranging from co-parenting to sex has been observed in over 1,000 species with likely many more as researchers begin to look for the behaviour explicitly. Homosexuality is widespread, with bisexuality even more prevalent across species."

Why do you think a creator would create so much same-sex behaviour in its creation? Especially if it is claimed that it detests such a thing?
So you just pasted something that agrees with me. Same-sex behavior. It says nothing about if they are attracted to each other. Here is homosexuality as I mean it from the dictionary.

the quality or characteristic of being sexually or romantically attracted exclusively to people of one's own sex or gender.

Displaying homosexual behavior is not evidence of being sexually attracted to or romantically attracted to.

For example, suppose I stumble on a man giving another man a blow job. Suppose he was only doing it for the money. He has no attraction to the same sex but the only work he can find as a sex worker is homosexual sex, so he does it. I would be very wrong if I observed this behavior then assumed he must be a homosexual.

Yes, he engaged in same-sex behavior, but in this case, he is not a homosexual.

User avatar
oldbadger
Guru
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:11 am
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 223 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #109

Post by oldbadger »

AquinasForGod wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:56 pm
For example, suppose I stumble on a man giving another man a blow job. Suppose he was only doing it for the money. He has no attraction to the same sex but the only work he can find as a sex worker is homosexual sex, so he does it. I would be very wrong if I observed this behavior then assumed he must be a homosexual.

Yes, he engaged in same-sex behavior, but in this case, he is not a homosexual.
Wherever do you dream up these ideas and suppositions?
How do you know that such a man has no attraction for other males?
You know nothing about such people, I reckon.

I knew a man (recently deceased) who was a rent boy in Soho back in the 60's. He was invited to very rich homes and places, knew so many celebrities and eventually a Bank director bought a home for him to live in. I knew this bloke very well in later years ........ he was a paid crew on yacht deliveries which I undertook on some weekends and was a local barber.

Your post shows that you cannot have any ideas about such people.... they all have different reasons for selling sex, just like some women can have.

User avatar
AquinasForGod
Sage
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:29 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: An alien with Vast Powers and Intelligence came to Earth

Post #110

Post by AquinasForGod »

oldbadger wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:35 am
AquinasForGod wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:56 pm
For example, suppose I stumble on a man giving another man a blow job. Suppose he was only doing it for the money. He has no attraction to the same sex but the only work he can find as a sex worker is homosexual sex, so he does it. I would be very wrong if I observed this behavior then assumed he must be a homosexual.

Yes, he engaged in same-sex behavior, but in this case, he is not a homosexual.
Wherever do you dream up these ideas and suppositions?
How do you know that such a man has no attraction for other males?
You know nothing about such people, I reckon.

I knew a man (recently deceased) who was a rent boy in Soho back in the 60's. He was invited to very rich homes and places, knew so many celebrities and eventually a Bank director bought a home for him to live in. I knew this bloke very well in later years ........ he was a paid crew on yacht deliveries which I undertook on some weekends and was a local barber.

Your post shows that you cannot have any ideas about such people.... they all have different reasons for selling sex, just like some women can have.
Do you not know what a hypothetical is and how I used it to prove a point?

Post Reply