Does Christ speak and how?

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Does Christ speak and how?

Post #1

Post by tam »

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."
(Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #391

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #390]
Then you can understand how the various versions of God/gods/spirits could have been invented. Not from nothing. The understanding of the Spirit/spirits/spiritual already existed.
Also to note from the original article that clownboat linked, the observation that the tribe did not believe in things that they could not see or experience as real things - along those lines...

That the tribe is consistent in its activates re that, they continue to wear amulets which are for the purpose of warding off - not imagined things - but real things - real at least, according to the beliefs of the tribal members.

Whereas, if they were atheists, their tendency would be to explain these supposed real things as 'imagination' rather than believe those things are real.

Which in turn goes against Clownboat's declaration that one can be an atheist and still believe in spirits and afterlife et al...just not in GOD - even that it is easy enough to show that the one thing can and often does, naturally lead to the other...but generally in my experience with those calling themselves atheists, the tendency is to try to explain spirits and such as "tricks/illusions of the brain", and if the tribe folk were truly atheists, they would accept the explanation and throw away the amulets...so the question therein, is why they have not done so.

Is it because no one has bothered to explain that to them, or some other reason? Do the articles re the tribe, cover this aspect?

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #392

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Clownboat wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:17 pm
tam wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:13 pm Because instead of simply saying, 'hey, my bad, what I meant was..." you tossed out an accusation of desperation.
I ammended my thinking. Which is more than you seem capable of doing, so let's remove the plank from your eye before pointing to the sliver in mine please.
That you still harp on how I changed my thinking reeks of desperation.


Come on Clownboat, this is what reeks of desperation. I have not 'harped' on anything. You asked a question, I simply answered it. The only reference that I made TO the Piraha to begin with was at YOUR suggestion, and even then I only quoted the relevant parts that backed up what I had said. For that, you accused me of desperation.
That you make a false focus about the paper I referenced reeks of desperation. This is on you and I beg you to ammend your thinking. You don't even have to say "my bad".
Amend WHAT thinking?
Regardless, we are in agreement that every single culture that we know of has sought and believes in some form of the spirit/spirits/spiritual. This is the only thing that I claimed to begin with (with the reminder that God is spirit; Christ is spirit; angels are spirit beings).
Spirits are a common agent used by humans to explain things, even for the Pirahã. Now what?
It was in the original point, as a comment on the article that you seem to think I am refusing to discuss:

From my post (first comes the fact that I bolded, then comes the comment about your article in relation to that fact, that I italicized and bolded):
Every single community or tribe that we know of, isolated or otherwise, has sought and believes in some form of the spirit/spirits/spirituality. Every single one of them.

Some (such as in your article) are seeking different possibilities of how and why this occurred. You can add to that list of possibilities that people have always sought (and continue to seek) out the spiritual because the spiritual exists. That is what is being demonstrated in the blurb you posted. A person might mistake something natural/physical for something spiritual (or vice versa), just as a man could mistake the wind for a predator (or vice versa). But both exist.
So I did give you my impression of the article.

**
As for the Piraha having no concept of an afterlife, they do seem to have some understanding about the dead being on another 'level', according to the link that I provided:
If this is something important to you, please tell us all you understand about the Pirahã afterlife and hopefully you can then explain what it would have to do with the paper I supplied to you that you don't seem very eager to discuss.
It appears that this paper and the Piraha are important to YOU, Clownboat, because they represented a society that has no spiritual beliefs (which you since have amended). I had never heard of them until you brought them up. I found them interesting as well, and spent a couple hours reading up on them yesterday.

The shaman ‘swaps places’ with the abaisi or with the dead by visiting their respective levels while the latter come to the Pirahã level.
For the love of all that is holy, please make a point! Better yet, discuss the paper that was the focus of my post to you.
I did discuss the paper. See above.
I claim it is desperation that has you focused on the Pirahã in place of the paper. Show that I'm wrong, I beg you!

You brought up the Piraha, Clownboat. The only thing I did with your reference was to look them up (as you suggested I do), and quote the relevant facts. That is it.


Peace again.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #393

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm No. "The spirit realm" is a theistic term and generically can and does involve God- Concepts.
The spirit realm is spiritual. Theistic realm is different.
the·is·tic
adjective
relating to or characterized by belief in the existence of a god or gods.
The idea that there are Atheists who believe in "the ghost and supernatural" may be theoretically possible,
It's not only possible, it is a real thing.

Belief in the supernatural is still alive and kicking, even among people who don’t believe in a god.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... g-science/
but there is scant evidence to show in my own exposure to those who call themselves "atheists" that any of them believe in "the ghost and supernatural"
Your exposure does not change facts.
...and that if any did profess to do so, they would not be counted as atheists.
Please ammend your thinking.
The description "Lacks belief in gods" does not have the addition "but can believe in the ghost and supernatural"...

Too much stretching is going on in your argument there Clownboat.

Will you ammend your thinking?
I have now supplied the definition for theistic for you twice. It is up to you to correct your thinking.
Snipping my comments is simply quote-mining and quote-mining leads to straw-man arguments.
Make them meaningful and they will not be snipped. If I snipped something you think was meaningful, by all means, attempt to rephrase it to make it seem meaningful.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #394

Post by Clownboat »

tam wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:02 pm All you have done here is describe a predator (or monster). Things that are already in your arsenal of agencies to assign. Please note that legs, fangs, venom and tails are all elements that predators (or monsters) possess.
Please make a point.
And of course you would not have assigned agency to this creature - you would have assigned the rustling in the bush to something you already knew or had heard of. If you had never heard of a ghost, you are not going to assume that a ghost comes and takes children away when they leave their villages.
So what do you make of the Psychology Today article that explains how humans evolved in an environment to become hyper sensative to assigning agency to things?
What thinking is it that you believe I need to amend? I'm asking sincerely.
The article has nothing to do with putting limitations on how humans assign agency. You are ascribing this limitation and pretending that the article cares. I sincerely ask you to comment on the article from Psycology Today that explains how humans evolved in an environment to become hyper sensative to assigning agency to things.
My work where I'm explaining to you that humans assign agency.
But I already understood that.
Then why this mission to try to ascribe limitations to human imagination that haven't been shown to exist? Humans invent concepts all the time that don't exist, so I don't understand what you are hung up on.
It is the "que religions" part of your quote that is not supported by the article; that you are making a leap (without evidence) into. The article supports the fact that people assign agency... sure ... but to KNOWN and/or HEARD OF things. Not to unknown or unheard of things.
What would stop a human from assigning agency to something imagined? Provide the mechanism for all of us to examine please.
No. Monsters are not real, but the child who believes a monster lives in his closet has first heard of monsters. Perhaps in a move, or a book, or just from other kids talking.

So in your scenario, the child imagined a concept that wasn't real in order to assign agency to the monster under his bed. Thank you for acknowledging that things that are not real can still be assigned as agents. Did you know that the article is about humans assigning agency to things?
I am saying that the examples you have given show a person assigning agency to something known or heard of.
You mean, like the concept of a predator, or the concept of a monster or the concept of a god? What is your point? Surely not that all gods and monsters are real?
Either way, what is your take on the article from Psychology Today that explains the environment that humans evolved in that made them hyper sensative to assigning agency to things?
It is not likely that a human would assign agency to something they have never heard of before
The concept of monsters, predators, gods and spirits is surely something known, so why are you hung up on this? What's your take on the article?
I don't really have a take on it, Clownboat. Possibly that is why we assign agency (to increase survival), possibly it is more than that, or a combination of things. It is clear that it can increase survival. Of course if you are hunting for prey and a rustling bushes sends you running in the opposite direction, you might miss out on the rabbit that could have been your dinner.
So you do have a take on it. Your take seem to be that you do notice how assigning agency to things could have been a survival advantage to early humans. Since this is reasonable, it is reasonable that this is the mechanism that led humans to be so hyper sensative to assigning agency. Neat, right?
I do not agree with you, Clownboat. We have various gods for some of the same reasons we have various versions of "jesus".

Ok. What is your point?
Take Sai Baba for instance (from POI's thread). He molded "Jesus" to fit in with Hinduism, his own beliefs. He had to change things to do it, contradict Christ in various places as well.

Perhaps he did it correctly? How could we know and again, what point are you trying to make?
(and there are multiple gods - little case 'g' - such as the Adversary, and other angels/seraphs that people moved to worship simply based on having had contact
Do you think these concepts are real, or agents assigned by humans to explain things in their life?
Then you can understand how the various versions of God/gods/spirits could have been invented. Not from nothing. The understanding of the Spirit/spirits/spiritual already existed.
I do not argue that the concepts of gods, demons, spirits or predators does not exist. This is not an argument that Clownboat believes in nor has Clownboat ever suggested such a thing.

If it is your claim that spirits are real, please show that you speak the truth. We can compare that to the article that explains how humans evolved in an environement to assigning agency (like spirits) to things.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #395

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:30 pm [Replying to tam in post #390]
Then you can understand how the various versions of God/gods/spirits could have been invented. Not from nothing. The understanding of the Spirit/spirits/spiritual already existed.
Also to note from the original article that clownboat linked, the observation that the tribe did not believe in things that they could not see or experience as real things - along those lines...

That the tribe is consistent in its activates re that, they continue to wear amulets which are for the purpose of warding off - not imagined things - but real things - real at least, according to the beliefs of the tribal members.

Whereas, if they were atheists, their tendency would be to explain these supposed real things as 'imagination' rather than believe those things are real.

Which in turn goes against Clownboat's declaration that one can be an atheist and still believe in spirits and afterlife et al...just not in GOD - even that it is easy enough to show that the one thing can and often does, naturally lead to the other...but generally in my experience with those calling themselves atheists, the tendency is to try to explain spirits and such as "tricks/illusions of the brain", and if the tribe folk were truly atheists, they would accept the explanation and throw away the amulets...so the question therein, is why they have not done so.

Is it because no one has bothered to explain that to them, or some other reason? Do the articles re the tribe, cover this aspect?
Once again, I will link to the evidence that shows your empty claims to be false.

Most atheists believe in the supernatural, despite trusting science
https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... g-science/

Here is a personal story as well:
I belong to an amazing group on Facebook called “Chill AF Atheist Women”... “Can you be an atheist and also believe in ghosts?” To my surprise, not only did many of the women believe in ghosts, some had had first-hand paranormal experiences.
https://freethoughtblogs.com/ashes/2021 ... aranormal/

Please ammend your thinking on atheists.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #396

Post by William »

[Replying to Clownboat in post #393]
The spirit realm is spiritual. Theistic realm is different.
the·is·tic
adjective
relating to or characterized by belief in the existence of a god or gods.
Dictionaries are great but we shouldn't conflate them with being to 'go to' place, to end any argument.

My point remains a valid one. The dictionary does not connect the dots re every word meaning and how they relate to every other word meaning.

As is known in certain sectors of the theistic community, "Spirituality" inevitably leads one the to realization that the existence of GOD is possible.

The Pirahã have opted for taking their knowledge of spirits being real and wearing amulets which appear to help them get on with hunting and gathering. They are not interested in discovering more about said spirits. Perhaps it is fear which prevents this from happening, but their resolve not to do so, does not mean that they are being atheistic about it.
The idea that there are Atheists who believe in "the ghost and supernatural" may be theoretically possible, but there is scant evidence to show in my own exposure to those who call themselves "atheists" that any of them believe in "the ghost and supernatural"
It's not only possible, it is a real thing.

Belief in the supernatural is still alive and kicking, even among people who don’t believe in a god.
Those type atheists have simply reacted in the same way the Pirahã reacted. They do not wish to take the existence of spirits to the point where GOD [also Spirit] is concluded....it is theism driving the ship, and some veil that from taking root and flourishing in the capacity to understand concepts - even that they are not hunters and gatherers as are the Pirahã, they are mirroring the same reaction.
Please ammend your thinking.
Please provide argument that will convince me to amend my current thinking.
Snipping my comments is simply quote-mining and quote-mining leads to straw-man arguments.
Make them meaningful and they will not be snipped.
If my comments are not meaningful to you, then ask for clarification. Discuss what I am arguing, rather than snip it as if it wasn't said, and reply a straw-answer to a quote-mine.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #397

Post by William »

[Replying to Clownboat in post #393]

Thanks for the link.

I have added it, and the link to my previous post, to my Journal List.

My previous post already answers why I have no reason to change my understanding of theism in its fully context so have nothing further to add to that at this time.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #398

Post by Clownboat »

You brought up the Piraha, Clownboat. The only thing I did with your reference was to look them up (as you suggested I do), and quote the relevant facts. That is it.
Clownboat did bring up the Piraha. Clownboat wishes he didn't allow himself to be distracted away from the article from Psychology Today to instead talk about the Piraha's spiritual beliefs that William is now confused about as being the same as the belief in gods.

The article from Psycholgy Today suggests as to why humans became so sensative to assigning agency to things. Do you find the article to be a credible mechanism for how humans were encouraged to assign agency?

You can follow up your reply with: "Clownboat was wrong about the Piraha" if it will help you to form an answer. I can handle it.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #399

Post by William »

William wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:35 pm [Replying to Clownboat in post #393]

Thanks for the link.

I have added it, and the link to my previous post, to my Journal List.

My previous post already answers why I have no reason to change my understanding of theism in its fully context so have nothing further to add to that at this time.
Clownboat: Here is a personal story as well:
I belong to an amazing group on Facebook called “Chill AF Atheist Women”... “Can you be an atheist and also believe in ghosts?” To my surprise, not only did many of the women believe in ghosts, some had had first-hand paranormal experiences.
From the link you provided:
Can you be an atheist and also believe in the paranormal?
I belong to an amazing group on Facebook called “Chill AF Atheist Women”. It is so nice to interact with a group of progressive, like-minded women. Their posts go from heartbreaking to hilarious and everything in between. It’s a good place to go for advice and you can’t usually say that about the internet. I love being a part of this group.

Anyway, not too long ago in this group, I saw this question asked — “Can you be an atheist and also believe in ghosts?” To my surprise, not only did many of the women believe in ghosts, some had had first-hand paranormal experiences.

I have strong feelings about this topic. Many of you know I have schizoaffective disorder. I was diagnosed at 21 and today live a very normal life thanks to medication. Before treatment, I had visual and auditory hallucinations that I referred to as “ghosts”. I would believe that places were haunted and that people were possessed. It was a whole new world for me when antipsychotic medication stopped my hallucinations.

Today I don’t believe in the paranormal. I think there’s an earthly explanation for everything. I don’t doubt people have experiences; I just think there must be explanations — even if we don’t have that explanation yet.

Also, sometimes I think believing in ghosts is admitting people have souls, and I don’t believe in that either.

So what do you think? Can you believe in the paranormal as an atheist? Do you believe in ghosts? Have you ever had a paranormal experience?
Clearly from the witness re the words of the poster, she feels that she cannot be an atheist without the meds which help her not to investigate the voices/visions further.

Perhaps the Pirahã can be convinced to take medications and finally convert to atheism?

Or, they could approach it from another direction, as did the women in this video:



This allows for the path of theism to continue to be investigated as a valid idea.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #400

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:31 pm Please provide argument that will convince me to amend my current thinking.
William from post 389: The idea that there are Atheists who believe in "the ghost and supernatural" may be theoretically possible, but there is scant evidence to show in my own exposure to those who call themselves "atheists" that any of them believe in "the ghost and supernatural"...and that if any did profess to do so, they would not be counted as atheists.

Since there are plenty of atheists that believe in ghosts, atheists can believe in ghosts while still remaining atheists.
Please ammend your thinking.
If my comments are not meaningful to you, then ask for clarification.

Meaningless, not unclarified, please note the difference.
Discuss what I am arguing, rather than snip it as if it wasn't said, and reply a straw-answer to a quote-mine.
I snipped it to show that it was said, that is the opposite of quote-mining. You cannot force me to respond to things you say that I find not to be worthy of a reply.

For example:
We each are personalities growing through the human experience, and there is more to us than simply the image we present to the world/each other.

This was snipped as I found it to be off topic and not worthy of a reply.

Another example:
Knowing thyself means knowing the intimate relationship between all the Archetypes and their involvement with the growing Personality.

Also snipped for being off topic and not interesting, therefore not worthy of a reply.

William, if you make weird statements like these and desire a reply, try forming a question. Just a little advice...
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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