The Jew Problem

[Conversator]

It fascinates me how Christians and Muslims want the religion of the Jews, but without the Jews. They'll write ten thousand books to explain why the Jew is damned, whilst they, the holy exemplars of the Jew's God, are blessed. I simply can't ignore this, as some courtesy to etiquette. Let's actually discuss this. 1st Thessalonians 2:15,16 " ...The Jews killed the lord Jesus and the prophets... they do not please God, and are hostile to ALL men... wrath is upon them to the utmost." Galatians 5:12 " I wish they ( the Jews) would castrate themselves." Surah 5:64 " the Jews...are cursed... they love to make mischief in the Earth." I find it curious. Shouldn't God be the focus of religion? If God's enemy is the focus of religion, should it even be called a religion? ( In fairness, my dear Muslim brothers and sisters have disavowed much of the hateful rhetoric in their Hadiths. And have been a force of good in this world, and will no doubt have a cherished place in the glorious world to come) I've often joked with my Muslim brothers that the only reason their book says bad stuff about us and our book says nothing bad about Muslims, is because they came after us. If they came first, our book would say bad stuff about them, but their book would have nothing bad about us. They know that and we do too

[JehovahsWitness]

It fascinates me how Christians and Muslims want the religion of the Jews, but without the Jews.

Well, I can't speak for Muslims but as a Christian this is not true for me at all. Firstly we don't want the "religion of the Jews" because biblically like a pair of old shoes, the religion of the Jews has served it purpose. It was beautiful and perfect in its day but is now all used up and old. Once shoes are outgrown and/or worn out they are only fit for the trash. As Paul said, the "religion of the Jews" (as in the temple based system of worship) represents the "the weak and beggerly things" a mere shadow of the real thing.


What true Christians want (and by the grace if God, have). is the God of the Jews: יהוה YHWH (Jehovah God). And since biblically as a nation the Jews (and their used up religion) have been rejected by God, Christians and Christians alone have His favor.

.... without the Jews?

By no means! Even though, according to the bible, as a nation the Jews lost God's (יהוה) favor, individually, any decendant of Abraham can repent and turn to Christ. Indeed, as one of Jehovahs Witnesses we are delighted to count among our number, many natural Jews. Were not all the first members of the Christian congregation Jewish? The Christian arrangement welcomes all peoples as equals in the eyes of יהוה (Jehovah).


JEHOVAH'S (יהוה)* WITNESS


* Hashem ("the name" of God YHWH)






RELATED POSTS

Who are "God's chosen people"?
viewtopic.php?p=956158#p956158

Was the establishment of the political state of Israel in 1948 the fulfillment of bible prophecy?
viewtopic.php?p=1106047#p1106047

[Conversator]

It fascinates me how Christians and Muslims want the religion of the Jews, but without the Jews.

Well, I can't speak for Muslims but as a Christian this is not true for me at all. Firstly we don't want the "religion of the Jews" because biblically like a pair of old shoes, the religion of the Jews has served it purpose. It was beautiful and perfect in its day but is now all used up and old. Once shoes are outgrown and/or worn out they are only fit for the trash. As Paul said, the "religion of the Jews" (as in the temple based system of worship) represents the "the weak and beggerly things" a mere shadow of the real thing.


What true Christians want (and by the grace if God, have). is the God of the Jews: יהוה YHWH (Jehovah God). And since biblically as a nation the Jews (and their used up religion) have been rejected by God, Christians and Christians alone have His favor.

.... without the Jews?

By no means! Even though, according to the bible, as a nation the Jews lost Gods favor, individually, any decendant of Abraham can repent and turn to Christ. Indeed, as one of Jehovahs Witnesses we are delighted to count among our number, many natural Jews. Were not all the first members of the Christian congregation Jewish? The Christian arrangement welcomes all peoples as equals in the eyes of God.


JEHOVAH'S (יהוה)* WITNESS


* Hashem ("the name" of God YHWH)






RELATED POSTS

Who are "God's chosen people"?
viewtopic.php?p=956158#p956158

You said the Jews are a pair of old shoes and serve no purpose, and that Jews are worn out worthless trash. I am blocking you. I didn't make this post to support hatred of Jews.

[JehovahsWitness]

You said the Jews are a pair of old shoes and serve no purpose...

No, I said the "religion" of the Jews had served its purpose. Please re-read carefully. Block away if you choose, but anyone reading my post can see there was absolutely no racial hatred in it. You invited a discussion on the position of Christian scripture vis-a-vis the {quote} "religion of the Jews" and I outlined what that is, namely that the religion and the nation as a whole (according to the Christian bible) have been rejected by God as His chosen people.



JW





RELATED POSTS

Who are the REAL twelve tribes of Israel ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 7#p1023147

Are all Christians "born again"?
viewtopic.php?p=850455#p850455

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM , THE 144, 000 and .... SPIRITUAL ISRAEL

[2ndpillar2]

It fascinates me how Christians and Muslims want the religion of the Jews, but without the Jews. They'll write ten thousand books to explain why the Jew is damned, whilst they, the holy exemplars of the Jew's God, are blessed. I simply can't ignore this, as some courtesy to etiquette. Let's actually discuss this. 1st Thessalonians 2:15,16 " ...The Jews killed the lord Jesus and the prophets... they do not please God, and are hostile to ALL men... wrath is upon them to the utmost." Galatians 5:12 " I wish they ( the Jews) would castrate themselves." Surah 5:64 " the Jews...are cursed... they love to make mischief in the Earth." These kindred religions share the same spirit: a rage against Jews. I find it curious. Shouldn't God be the focus of religion? If God's enemy is the focus of religion, should it even be called a religion?

Well, the Gentile church, supported by the "kingdoms" named per Daniel 2:44-45 and Revelation 17:9-15, such as Rome, as prophesized by Yeshua, have followed the "false prophets", such as the false prophet Paul, and Mohammad, down the "wide" path that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13-15). When the rains, wind, and floods come, they will "fall", and be washed away. (Matthew 7:24-27). Quess who will be left standing (Ezekiel 37)? If you said the combined houses of Judah and Ephraim, gives yourself a prize. Quess who will be ruled by an "iron rod" in the hands of the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13-15)? If you said the nations/Gentiles, give yourself the prize. (Zechariah 14:16).

[2timothy316]

Shouldn't God be the focus of religion?

It should, but in all the religions you mentioned, it seems that God is not the focus, the focus is the tradition of the religion. They say they focus on God and His Word but in my experience when God's Word doesn't go along with their religious tradition, they pick their religious tradition. If their tradition is hating a particular group well so be it. They see no reason to change. It just 'the way it's always been' they say.

[Conversator]

It fascinates me how Christians and Muslims want the religion of the Jews, but without the Jews. They'll write ten thousand books to explain why the Jew is damned, whilst they, the holy exemplars of the Jew's God, are blessed. I simply can't ignore this, as some courtesy to etiquette. Let's actually discuss this. 1st Thessalonians 2:15,16 " ...The Jews killed the lord Jesus and the prophets... they do not please God, and are hostile to ALL men... wrath is upon them to the utmost." Galatians 5:12 " I wish they ( the Jews) would castrate themselves." Surah 5:64 " the Jews...are cursed... they love to make mischief in the Earth." These kindred religions share the same spirit: a rage against Jews. I find it curious. Shouldn't God be the focus of religion? If God's enemy is the focus of religion, should it even be called a religion?

Well, the Gentile church, supported by the "kingdoms" named per Daniel 2:44-45 and Revelation 17:9-15, such as Rome, as prophesized by Yeshua, have followed the "false prophets", such as the false prophet Paul, and Mohammad, down the "wide" path that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13-15). When the rains, wind, and floods come, they will "fall", and be washed away. (Matthew 7:24-27). Quess who will be left standing (Ezekiel 37)? If you said the combined houses of Judah and Ephraim, gives yourself a prize. Quess who will be ruled by an "iron rod" in the hands of the "Word of God" (Revelation 19:13-15)? If you said the nations/Gentiles, give yourself the prize. (Zechariah 14:16).

I'm not a Christian, but I share your view of Jesus. I don't believe the historical Jesus hated Jews, Judaism, or anybody for that matter. Pauline Christianity seemed to generate all that hateful misery by itself.
I seriously doubt Paul was even a Jew at all, but that's a separate topic altogether. Anybody claiming to be a Pharisee taught by the famous rabbi Gamaliel would not have used the gnostic terminology he frequently used: angelic principalities, rulers of this age, etc. Nor would a supposed Pharisee quote some strange Tanach as he did, which never remotely resembles the Hebrew Masoretic text. Paul's use of the Tanach is so appalling that even New Testament scholars struggle to define it: i.e., he paraphrased the septuagint under duress etc. Surely a Pharisee could competently quote the Tanach into the Greek language better than that. Nor would any Jew defend his Jewish identity as much as he did in his epistles! Why did so many people doubt that he was a Jew, that he constantly felt compelled to defend it? I believe Paul, the Pharisee imposter, was arrested in Jerusalem for trespassing the Temple. Anyways, cheers

[JehovahsWitness]

I believe Paul, the Pharisee imposter, was arrested in Jerusalem for trespassing the Temple

WAS PAUL A JEWISH IMPOSTER?

That Paul was arrested in the Jewish temple is a matter of record, but that he merely pretended to be Jewish is an entirely outlandish idea.



Paul had claimed to have been a Jew, a Pharisee and a student of Gamaliel. These things would have been easy to prove false: Paul was not after all making these claims in some far off land to people that had no living memory of events, he was standing at the center of Jewish religious and academic learning and making these claims to his former associates. If anyone thinks there would not have been an avalanche religious leaders to expose him as a liar, there may be a bridge in Brooklyn with their name on it! Like Jesus, Pauls preaching and teaching was truly prolific, had he been a mere Jewish wannabe, we should have (or at least have reference) to first century writings of such exposing.





JW




RELATED POSTS

Was Paul a Jewish imposter?
viewtopic.php?p=1109378#p1109378

Did Paul go to Jerusalem shortly after his conversion to consult with the apostles?
viewtopic.php?p=374497#p374497

Why didn't the Apostle Paul write like a Pharisee?
viewtopic.php?p=1109231#p1109231

Did Pauls confrontation with Peter represent a rift in the church?
viewtopic.php?p=1109774#p1109774

Did Paul go to Jerusalem shortly after his conversion to consult with the apostles?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p374497

Could Paul have legitimately been able to make claims as to his Jewish heritage?
viewtopic.php?p=420232#p420232

Did Paul hate Jews?
viewtopic.php?p=1109380#p1109380

For further details please go to other posts related to ...

PAUL, THE MOSIAC LAW and ...THE WRITING OF THE APOSTLE PAUL

[JehovahsWitness]

DID PAUL HATE JEWS?

There is no evidence that he did. Pauls writings never express hatred for the Jewish people. On the contrary, it is clear from what he wrote and the accounts of his ministry, that he sought to minister to jews to save them which one would not do if one harbours anamosity. The book of Acts has him persistently approaching the Jewish community in an attempt to speak to them, attempts which were constantly impeded by the Jewish religious leaders. So no, there is absolutly not evidence Paul hated anyone because of their race or origins, especially not his fellow Jews whom he called "brothers".

What Paul did hate was unrighteousness and he spoke out with typical Pauline force against those that promoted falsehoods, especially within the Christian community. As an Apostle and an appointed leading man in the church, he had authority to expose and reprimand those that taught falsehoods within the church and he did so in no uncertain terms. This did not amount to hatred against everyone of the same race, any more than denouncing the Pope means hatred of italians.

[Miles]

I believe Paul, the Pharisee imposter, was arrested in Jerusalem for trespassing the Temple

WAS PAUL A JEWISH IMPOSTER?

That Paul was arrested in the Jewish temple is a matter of record, but that he merely pretended to be Jewish is an entirely outlandish and ludicius idea.

Paul had claimed to have been a Jew, a Pharisee and a student of Gamaliel. These things would have been easy to prove false: Paul was not after all making these claims in some far off land to people that had no living memory of events, he was standing at the center of Jewish religious and academic learning and making these claims to his former associates. If anyone thinks there would not have been an avalanche religious leaders to expose him as a liar, there may be a bridge in Brooklyn with their name on it! Like Jesus, Pauls preaching an and teaching was truly prolific, had he been a mere Jewish wannabe, we should have (or at least have reference) to first century writings of such exposing.

Those that suggest such outlandish ideas are perhaps never asked for actual evidence to support them, in this forum they get no such free rides.

Curious as to what this record is and where it resides, other than as a Bible story of course.

.