Trinity from Elohim?

[Conversator]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

[bjs1]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You said, Exodus 4:16 says, " speak with the mouth of elohom", it actually says, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth, the spokesman, Moses is elohim. I don't see the point in going beyond Exodus 4:16 with you, until you properly understand it in the first place. I could easily give the full list of humans who were individually called elohim, but I'm still waiting for intellectual honesty to at least begin the conversation.

Ok, but the underlying problem remains. “You will be Elohim to him,” is not the same as a calling someone Elohim.

The text would be just as valid if it said, “you will be the Trinity to him.” That is not calling someone the Trinity. It is conferring the authority of the Trinity upon a person.

Conferring the authority of Elohim on someone is not the same as calling that person Elohim.

Instead of a full list, please give one example (the best one in your opinion) of someone actually being called Elohim.

Also, do not accuse people of intellectual dishonesty for pointing out weaknesses in your reasoning.

[Conversator]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You said, Exodus 4:16 says, " speak with the mouth of elohom", it actually says, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth, the spokesman, Moses is elohim. I don't see the point in going beyond Exodus 4:16 with you, until you properly understand it in the first place. I could easily give the full list of humans who were individually called elohim, but I'm still waiting for intellectual honesty to at least begin the conversation.

Ok, but the underlying problem remains. “You will be Elohim to him,” is not the same as a calling someone Elohim.

The text would be just as valid if it said, “you will be the Trinity to him.” That is not calling someone the Trinity. It is conferring the authority of the Trinity upon a person.

Conferring the authority of Elohim on someone is not the same as calling that person Elohim.

Instead of a full list, please give one example (the best one in your opinion) of someone actually being called Elohim.

Also, do not accuse people of intellectual dishonesty for pointing out weaknesses in your reasoning.

You've got a green name ban me. I'm bored here. And your quote of Exodus 4:16 WAS dishonest: " God said I'll make Moses the mouth of elohim", you lied. It says nothing of the sort. Ta ta liar

[bjs1]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You said, Exodus 4:16 says, " speak with the mouth of elohom", it actually says, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth, the spokesman, Moses is elohim. I don't see the point in going beyond Exodus 4:16 with you, until you properly understand it in the first place. I could easily give the full list of humans who were individually called elohim, but I'm still waiting for intellectual honesty to at least begin the conversation.

Ok, but the underlying problem remains. “You will be Elohim to him,” is not the same as a calling someone Elohim.

The text would be just as valid if it said, “you will be the Trinity to him.” That is not calling someone the Trinity. It is conferring the authority of the Trinity upon a person.

Conferring the authority of Elohim on someone is not the same as calling that person Elohim.

Instead of a full list, please give one example (the best one in your opinion) of someone actually being called Elohim.

Also, do not accuse people of intellectual dishonesty for pointing out weaknesses in your reasoning.

You've got a green name ban me. I'm bored here. And your quote of Exodus 4:16 WAS dishonest: " God said I'll make Moses the mouth of elohim", you lied. It says nothing of the sort. Ta ta liar

No one forces you to post here. You are free to leave at any time. The argument was still flawed, and you chose personal insults instead of defending it.

[Conversator]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You corrected me, and by implication in your other post accused me of lying about Exodus 4:16. Anybody can look the verse up and see whose being dishonest. You quote Exodus 4:16 as actually saying, " speak with the mouth of elohim." And lectured me about how Moses is called the mouth of elohim, but NOT actually called elohim. I quoted Exodus 4:16 as saying, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you as elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth. Aaron is the spokesman. But Moses is called elohim. My question was how Moses is a Trinity if elohim means Trinity? Obviously, not all Christians say elohim means Trinity, but some do? Anyway sorry for calling you a liar. I'll simply block you. Cheers.

[bjs1]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You corrected me, and by implication in your other post accused me of lying about Exodus 4:16. Anybody can look the verse up and see whose being dishonest. You quote Exodus 4:16 as actually saying, " speak with the mouth of elohim." And lectured me about how Moses is called the mouth of elohim, but NOT actually called elohim. I quoted Exodus 4:16 as saying, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you as elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth. Aaron is the spokesman. But Moses is called elohim. My question was how Moses is a Trinity if elohim means Trinity? Obviously, not all Christians say elohim means Trinity, but some do? Anyway sorry for calling you a liar. I'll simply block you. Cheers.

You can leave the forum. You can block me. I assure you, I am fine with it. None of that changes the problem with this argument, as expressed in post 11, that God did not refer to Moses as Elohim. He said that Moses would be “as Elohim to him [Aaron].” That gives Moses the authority to speak for Elohim, but it is not the same as calling Moses “Elohim.”

If you have an example from the Bible of God calling an individual “Elohim” I would be interested to hear it. I know of verses like Psalm 82 where it says of the people on the whole “you are Elohim and children of the Most High.” I cannot think of a verse (this doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist) where an individual is actually called Elohim.

[Conversator]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You corrected me, and by implication in your other post accused me of lying about Exodus 4:16. Anybody can look the verse up and see whose being dishonest. You quote Exodus 4:16 as actually saying, " speak with the mouth of elohim." And lectured me about how Moses is called the mouth of elohim, but NOT actually called elohim. I quoted Exodus 4:16 as saying, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you as elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth. Aaron is the spokesman. But Moses is called elohim. My question was how Moses is a Trinity if elohim means Trinity? Obviously, not all Christians say elohim means Trinity, but some do? Anyway sorry for calling you a liar. I'll simply block you. Cheers.

You can leave the forum. You can block me. I assure you, I am fine with it. None of that changes the problem with this argument, as expressed in post 11, that God did not refer to Moses as Elohim. He said that Moses would be “as Elohim to him [Aaron].” That gives Moses the authority to speak for Elohim, but it is not the same as calling Moses “Elohim.”

If you have an example from the Bible of God calling an individual “Elohim” I would be interested to hear it. I know of verses like Psalm 82 where it says of the people on the whole “you are Elohim and children of the Most High.” I cannot think of a verse (this doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist) where an individual is actually called Elohim.

I'm confused. You said Exodus 4:16 says " speak with the mouth of elohim", now you're saying it says, " as elohim to him ( Aaron)", I can't understand you. Which is it? Very confusing

[Conversator]

Guess I'll quote it one more time. Exodus 4:16 " Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be a mouth for you, and you will be as elohim to him." I understand that to mean Aaron will " speak" and Aaron will be a " mouth". Thus Aaron is the spokesman. I understand Moses, will be as " elohim to him", to Aaron. Moses will be as elohim to Aaron. You said in post 11, it doesn't call Moses elohim, it actually says Moses " you are the mouth of elohim". Your last post said, " you will be elohim to him ( Aaron)." What version are you reading? And what are you attempting to say?

[bjs1]

Christians argue that elohim proves the trinity. Since elohim is plural (gods), it must reveal the plurality of God in the Trinity. God called Moses elohim in Exodus 4:16. Moses is one, not many ( other humans are individually called elohim as well, but Moses will do here). Individual heathen gods are also called elohim. Chemosh is called elohim, Baal is called elohim, Molech is called elohim etc. Why does elohim denote God is a trinity, but the rest are not trinities? Are we to presume Moses is a trinity, Chemosh is a trinity, Baal is a trinity, etc. Please stick with the topic. I don't want to entertain arguments about the trinity from non-elohim topics ( i.g., Paul said, the New Testament said, Joseph Smith said, the Pope said, etc. Please stick with how elohim means trinity. Thank you )

I have never heard a Christian argue that Elohim proves the trinity, but let’s give the argument a fair shake. The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim.

As an analogy, in negotiations a person might have the authority to speak for the United State’s federal government, but that is not calling that individual US federal government.

You claim that other people are individually called Elohim. Can you give an example of that so that we can fully consider your argument?

You corrected me, and by implication in your other post accused me of lying about Exodus 4:16. Anybody can look the verse up and see whose being dishonest. You quote Exodus 4:16 as actually saying, " speak with the mouth of elohim." And lectured me about how Moses is called the mouth of elohim, but NOT actually called elohim. I quoted Exodus 4:16 as saying, " he shall speak for you to the people, and he will be as a mouth for you and you as elohim to him." Aaron is the mouth. Aaron is the spokesman. But Moses is called elohim. My question was how Moses is a Trinity if elohim means Trinity? Obviously, not all Christians say elohim means Trinity, but some do? Anyway sorry for calling you a liar. I'll simply block you. Cheers.

You can leave the forum. You can block me. I assure you, I am fine with it. None of that changes the problem with this argument, as expressed in post 11, that God did not refer to Moses as Elohim. He said that Moses would be “as Elohim to him [Aaron].” That gives Moses the authority to speak for Elohim, but it is not the same as calling Moses “Elohim.”

If you have an example from the Bible of God calling an individual “Elohim” I would be interested to hear it. I know of verses like Psalm 82 where it says of the people on the whole “you are Elohim and children of the Most High.” I cannot think of a verse (this doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist) where an individual is actually called Elohim.

I'm confused. You said Exodus 4:16 says " speak with the mouth of elohim", now you're saying it says, " as elohim to him ( Aaron)", I can't understand you. Which is it? Very confusing

I haven not argued with your translation since post 11. I have said, and continue to say, that the translation you are using ("as Elohim to him") is not the same thing as calling Moses "Elohim."

[Conversator]

Post 8: " The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim. "



Again, you quote Exodus 4:16 thus, " speak with the mouth of elohim." What version are you using? because it is incorrect. Neither the Masoretic text, nor any translation of it, says that. They all say, " as elohim to him." I'm not familiar with any translation that says, " speak with the mouth of elohim." I assure you, whatever version you're using is in error.

[bjs1]

Post 8: " The first problem I see is that God did not call Moses Elohim. In Exodus 4:16 God said that Moses would “speak with the mouth of Elohim.” Moses had the authority to speak for Elohim, but Elohim did not say that Moses was Elohim. "



Again, you quote Exodus 4:16 thus, " speak with the mouth of elohim." What version are you using? because it is incorrect. Neither the Masoretic text, nor any translation of it, says that. They all say, " as elohim to him." I'm not familiar with any translation that says, " speak with the mouth of elohim." I assure you, whatever version you're using is in error.

Yet again, I have not argued your translation since post 11. I am going by the translation you are using. The translation "as Elohim to him" is an acceptable translation. I don't know how many other ways I can say this.

The problem is that "as Elohim to him" is not the same thing as calling Moses "Elohim." This is a simile

A simile is a figure of speech comparing two unlike things that is often introduced by like or as (as in cheeks like roses).
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/simile

Elohim and Moses are unlike things. They are being compared only in the fact that they will both have authority to give words to Aaron. Beyond that, they are not alike. Moses was not called Elohim. Moses was compared to Elohim in one specific way by use of a simile.

Do you have an example from the Bible of an individual being called Elohim? One genuine example will be sufficient. There is no need for a long list.