Dinosaur tracks in the Paluxy riverbed.

[Tcg]

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The Paluxy River in Glen Rose, Texas has dried to the point of revealing dinosaur tracks, again. This time apparently to the point that previously undiscovered tracks have been found. This caught my attention because in the 1930s, some creationists claimed that human tracks were found there in the same rock level as dinosaur tracks. It was later determined that they weren't human tracks and there was some evidence that the tracks may have been modified to more closely resemble human tracks.

This article provides some of the issues:

Paluxy Man -- The Creationist Piltdown

Creationists, by citing examples of fossils that are supposed to be in the wrong order for evolution, often try to prove that the geological time scale is in error. In particular, they claim that human footprints have been found in rocks containing traces of dinosaurs and other animals that died out millions of years before humans actually appeared on the earth. As we shall see, however, these alleged footprints are either natural objects that have nothing to do with humans or are deliberate frauds. On the whole, the leading creationist authors are intelligent and sincere, but it seems that they have a very strong will to believe when it comes to defending their model.

https://ncse.ngo/paluxy-man-creationist-piltdown

The Piltdown Man is often presented as a reason to mistrust science, but are there any scientists today who don't accept that it was a fraud?

Are there any creationists today who still accept the human footprint claim and if so, what does that say about science's ability to correct and reject false claims compared to the creationist approach?


Tcg

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #98]


Yeah, you are not getting it. The OT is not a history book.

Of course it isn't. Nobody said it was; however, is it not true that All scripture is from god?

2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is given by God. And all Scripture is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives."

and everything He says is true?

Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar."

It doesn't matter how much you misunderstand the NT verses you quote.

So, as you see it, just what IS the proper understanding of 2 Timothy 3:16?



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[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Miles in post #101]

All scripture is from God.

Now, think about this a bit. Not all the bible is scripture. Paul, for example says, now I say and not the Lord. That is not scripture, but it is in the bible.

And think about this. Just because something is from God doesn't mean it is history. Because something is scripture doesn't mean it is history.

God can give us a parable, which is not history, but is a made up story to teach us a lesson. Jesus did this a lot.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #101]

All scripture is from God.

Now, think about this a bit. Not all the bible is scripture. Paul, for example says, now I say and not the Lord. That is not scripture, but it is in the bible.

Found no such qualification whatsoever. But, what did find was:

From the Encyclopedia Britannica

"Bible, The sacred scriptures of Judaism and Christianity. The Christian Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament, with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox versions of the Old Testament being slightly larger because of their acceptance of certain books and parts of books considered apocryphal by Protestants."
source

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Scripture

From Easton's Bible Dictionary

invariably in the New Testament denotes that definite collection of sacred books, regarded as given by inspiration of God, which we usually call the Old Testament ( 2 Timothy 3:15 2 Timothy 3:16 ; John 20:9 ; Galatians 3:22 ; 2 Pet 1:20 ). It was God's purpose thus to perpetuate his revealed will. From time to time he raised up men to commit to writing in an infallible record the revelation he gave. The "Scripture," or collection of sacred writings, was thus enlarged from time to time as God saw necessary. We have now a completed "Scripture," consisting of the Old and New Testaments. The Old Testament canon in the time of our Lord was precisely the same as that which we now possess under that name. He placed the seal of his own authority on this collection of writings, as all equally given by inspiration ( Matthew 5:17 ; 7:12 ; 22:40 ; Luke 16:29 Luke 16:31 ).
source

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scripture (skrɪptʃər

From Collins Dictionary

variable noun
Scripture or the scriptures refers to writings that are regarded as holy in a particular religion, for example, the Bible in Christianity.

Scripture in American English
(ˈskrɪptʃər)
noun
. (often Scriptures) Also called: Holy Scripture, Holy Scriptures
the sacred writings of the Old or New Testaments or both together
source

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From KJV Dictionary

SCRIP'TURE, n. L. scriptura, from scribo, to write.

1. In its primary sense, a writing; any thing written.

2. Appropriately, and by way of distinction, the books of the Old and New Testament; the Bible. The word is used either in the singular or plural number, to denote the sacred writings or divine oracles, called sacred or holy, as proceeding from God and containing sacred doctrines and precepts.
source

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From National Catholic Education Commission

The Catholic canon of Scripture has 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 books for the New Testament.
url=https://scripture.catholic.edu.au/index ... scripture/]source[/url]
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From New Advent > Catholic Encyclopedia > S > Scripture

Sacred Scripture is one of the several names denoting the inspired writings which make up the Old and New Testament.
source

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From Wikipedia

According to the Decretum Gelasianum (a work written by an anonymous scholar between AD 519 and 553), Catholic Church officials cited a list of books of scripture presented as having been made canonical at the Council of Rome (382). Later, the Catholic Church formally affirmed its canon of scripture with the Synod of Hippo (393), followed by a Council of Carthage (397), another Council of Carthage (419), the Council of Florence (1431-1449), and the Council of Trent (1545-1563). The canon consists of 46 books in the Old Testament and 27 books in the New Testament, for a total of 73 books in the Catholic Bible
source

So I don't know what you're talking about.

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[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Miles in post #103]

That was a huge waste of time because it doesn't address my views at all. Also, it is a generalization.

The church will say something like, scripture is the bible, generally, but they recognize the fact that Paul said, "It is I that speak here and not the Lord."

That part is not from God. Paul says it is not.

Also, there is the other issue I pointed out. Even when it is scripture, i.e. it is from God, that does not mean it is history or science. See my example of how God can tell me to write a story.

[Clownboat]

God can give us a parable, which is not history, but is a made up story to teach us a lesson. Jesus did this a lot.

Perhaps the sorcering up of fish and bread was made up? Walking on water? Heck, even the ressurection and the hundreds of dead bodies that returned to life could have been made up to teach a lesson (or to get people to accept said lesson).

You bring up good points and reasons to not accept Biblical claims without good reason.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #103]

That was a huge waste of time because it doesn't address my views at all.

Sure it does because you said: "Not all the bible is scripture," and without exception all of my examples imply otherwise.

Also, it is a generalization.

Actually, it's quite specific. They all identify what's written in both the Old Testament and the New Testament as scripture, and without qualification no less.

The church will say something like, scripture is the bible, generally, but they recognize the fact that Paul said, "It is I that speak here and not the Lord."
That part is not from God. Paul says it is not.

"Generally"? Where has the Church ever said scripture is generally the Bible?

But what's the deal here; what Paul says trumps what is said of god? What 2 Timothy 3:16 said

"All Scripture is given by God.

is a lie, a fib, a mistake?

To tell the truth, I've never seen the veracity of this piece of scripture ever challenged much less deemed false. But if you've got evidence I'm all ears.

HOWEVER, for the sake of argument I will grant that any Biblical statement to the effect that what follows does not come from god, is true. Now what, a restatement of 2 Timothy 3:16?

"Unless actually stated in the Bible to be otherwise, all Scripture is given by God"

Also, there is the other issue I pointed out. Even when it is scripture, i.e. it is from God, that does not mean it is history or science.

Never said it was. Some is just silliness and god incited savagery.

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[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Miles in post #106]

All scripture is given by God, but not every word in the bible is given by God, as Paul said, this is I that speak and NOT the Lord.

Unless you respond with something that actually address my point rather than skipping over it, I will be done with this. You can have the last word in that case.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #106]

All scripture is given by God, but not every word in the bible is given by God, as Paul said, this is I that speak and NOT the Lord.

Unless you respond with something that actually address my point rather than skipping over it, I will be done with this. You can have the last word in that case.

Then evidently you missed my remark in post 106:

HOWEVER, for the sake of argument I will grant that any Biblical statement to the effect that what follows does not come from god, is true. Now what, a restatement of 2 Timothy 3:16?

"Unless actually stated in the Bible to be otherwise, all Scripture is given by God"

And I won't even bother to ask how All scripture can be given by God, but not every word in the bible is.

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[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Miles in post #106]

All scripture is given by God, but not every word in the bible is given by God, as Paul said, this is I that speak and NOT the Lord.

Unless you respond with something that actually address my point rather than skipping over it, I will be done with this. You can have the last word in that case.

Then evidently you missed my remark in post 106:

HOWEVER, for the sake of argument I will grant that any Biblical statement to the effect that what follows does not come from god, is true. Now what, a restatement of 2 Timothy 3:16?

"Unless actually stated in the Bible to be otherwise, all Scripture is given by God"

And I won't even bother to ask how All scripture can be given by God, but not every word in the bible is.

.

Because it would be equivocating on bible and scripture as if they mean the same thing, which they do not. In the time Paul wrote to Timothy, the only scriptures that existed was the OT books, so Paul could not have been talking about the gospels or his unwritten letters or letters written later like Peter or Hebrews or Revelation, Jude, etc.

But also, we need to consider the following. Scripture being given by God doesn't mean God wrote it or that it is perfect. Also, different books given by God serve different purposes. Kings doesn't serve the same purpose as Genesis.

[brunumb]

But also, we need to consider the following. Scripture being given by God doesn't mean God wrote it or that it is perfect. Also, different books given by God serve different purposes. Kings doesn't serve the same purpose as Genesis.

All good reason to take anything written in the Bible with a grain of salt.