May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

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Eddie Ramos
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May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

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Post by Eddie Ramos »

The first and most common response to this title is for people to ask, "show me where the Bible says "May 21, 2011 is the beginning of judgment day"". The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself". They say this confidently because that's what they plainly read in Mat 24:36 and Mark 13:32. Yet, they fail to understand what those passages are actually teaching because they fail to acknowledge that Christ did not speak without parables (Mat 13:34 & Mk 4:34). Therefore, they take his words as though they were plain words, and this leads to their error which I hope to discuss in this thread.

Another major factor is in the scriptures is that God placed a calendar in the scriptures, that, when carefully followed, using the principles established in the Bible alone, reveals to us many major key events that took place in history since the beginning of time. The calendar is concealed within the genealogies that God has placed throughout the Bible, starting with the first human being created, Adam. Genealogies are often overlooked as "irrelevant" to the modern Christian, but 2 Tim 3:16 assures us that "ALL (meaning, "EVERY") scripture is useful for doctrine. This includes genealogies.

I hope to develop the calendar as this thread continues to show that May 21, 2011 (in our Gregorian calendar) is simply a day in our modern calendar which we can relate to, but that date is exactly 7,000 years from the date of the flood. Which was God's first judgment upon the world where he shut the door to the world after saving the 8 souls he planned to save, and not coincidentally, God gave us the exact date of when that took place and the Bible gave us the rest of the information of when His final judgment would happen.

Genesis 7:11 (KJV 1900)
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.


I realize this is a very broad subject thread, but we can start anywhere you'd like to develop from the scriptures how this date came from the Bible. And how God always intended to reveal to his elect children the timing of his final judgment upon the world, just as he revealed every major judgment in the Bible before it came to pass.

So, which part of this OP would anyone like to discuss first?

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #2

Post by Miles »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm The first and most common response to this title is for people to ask, "show me where the Bible says "May 21, 2011 is the beginning of judgment day"". The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself". They say this confidently because that's what they plainly read in Mat 24:36 and Mark 13:32. Yet, they fail to understand what those passages are actually teaching because they fail to acknowledge that Christ did not speak without parables (Mat 13:34 & Mk 4:34). Therefore, they take his words as though they were plain words, and this leads to their error which I hope to discuss in this thread.
Okay, so just what is the moral, principal, or lesson of this parable you speak of?

Another major factor is in the scriptures is that God placed a calendar in the scriptures, that, when carefully followed, using the principles established in the Bible alone, reveals to us many major key events that took place in history since the beginning of time. The calendar is concealed within the genealogies that God has placed throughout the Bible, starting with the first human being created, Adam. Genealogies are often overlooked as "irrelevant" to the modern Christian, but 2 Tim 3:16 assures us that "ALL (meaning, "EVERY") scripture is useful for doctrine.
How do you know? Is this written somewhere?

This includes genealogies.
How do you know it includes genealogies? Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

I hope to develop the calendar as this thread continues to show that May 21, 2011 (in our Gregorian calendar) is simply a day in our modern calendar which we can relate to, but that date is exactly 7,000 years from the date of the flood.
We hope so as well, although, having already determined the date I would expect you would have already developed such a calendar. No?

Which was God's first judgment upon the world where he shut the door to the world after saving the 8 souls he planned to save, and not coincidentally, God gave us the exact date of when that took place and the Bible gave us the rest of the information of when His final judgment would happen.
Care to point this out?

Genesis 7:11 (KJV 1900)
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
So, in what year was Noah born, and how do you know?


.

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #3

Post by Eddie Ramos »

Miles wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:15 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm The first and most common response to this title is for people to ask, "show me where the Bible says "May 21, 2011 is the beginning of judgment day"". The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself". They say this confidently because that's what they plainly read in Mat 24:36 and Mark 13:32. Yet, they fail to understand what those passages are actually teaching because they fail to acknowledge that Christ did not speak without parables (Mat 13:34 & Mk 4:34). Therefore, they take his words as though they were plain words, and this leads to their error which I hope to discuss in this thread.
Okay, so just what is the moral, principal, or lesson of this parable you speak of?
Not sure which parable specifically you are referring to, but in general terms, the purpose of parables is designed with the sole purpose of concealing spiritual truth from those who do not have the Spirit of God (the unsaved). This is why Christ (The Word of God) did not speak without parables.

Matthew 13:10–14 (KJV 1900)
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (that are without) it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:


Neglecting this principle, causes many to take the Word of God at face value and err greatly in their doctrines.
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:15 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm Another major factor is in the scriptures is that God placed a calendar in the scriptures, that, when carefully followed, using the principles established in the Bible alone, reveals to us many major key events that took place in history since the beginning of time. The calendar is concealed within the genealogies that God has placed throughout the Bible, starting with the first human being created, Adam. Genealogies are often overlooked as "irrelevant" to the modern Christian, but 2 Tim 3:16 assures us that "ALL (meaning, "EVERY") scripture is useful for doctrine.
How do you know? Is this written somewhere?
The fact that you're asking if God stated somewhere in the Bible that he has placed there a calendar means you don't understand that God teaches many things in His Word that he doesn't plainly state. This goes back tot he principles of parables. In the case of the biblical calendar, it's hidden within the genealogies that so many ignore. The Bible teaches us that everything was created in 6 days and mankind (Adam) on the 6th day. So, when we follow Adam's genealogy in Genesis chapter 5, we are given the starting point for the calendar of God. For example, when Adam was created, we know that the world was only 6 days old. Then in Genesis 5: (which is the next time reference we're given concerning Adam) we're told that he had been alive for 130 years when his son Seth was born.

Genesis 5:3 (KJV 1900)
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:


We've now advanced 130 years in the biblical calendar by following the one individual who was created at the very beginning of the world. This is why God tells us how long Adam had lived when Seth was born, and thereby making Seth the next individual whom we can follow forward in time. And it's no coincidence that God once again gives us additional information in the timeline of his calendar by telling us how old Seth was when he begat Enos.

Genesis 5:6 (KJV 1900)
And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:


So, we can say that Seth was born when the world was 130 years old, or in the year 130 from the date of creation. Likewise, we can say that Enos was born 105 years later, or 235 (130+105) years from the creation of the world. And the calendar continues....
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:15 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm This includes genealogies.
How do you know it includes genealogies? Sounds like wishful thinking to me.
I explained this above.
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:15 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm I hope to develop the calendar as this thread continues to show that May 21, 2011 (in our Gregorian calendar) is simply a day in our modern calendar which we can relate to, but that date is exactly 7,000 years from the date of the flood.
We hope so as well, although, having already determined the date I would expect you would have already developed such a calendar. No?
Yes, the calendar has already been developed.
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:15 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm Which was God's first judgment upon the world where he shut the door to the world after saving the 8 souls he planned to save, and not coincidentally, God gave us the exact date of when that took place and the Bible gave us the rest of the information of when His final judgment would happen.
Care to point this out?
Yes. The answer is in the scripture below where God gives the exact day of when the flood took place (again, not for no reason). I will explain more below.
Miles wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:15 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm Genesis 7:11 (KJV 1900)
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
So, in what year was Noah born, and how do you know?
.
As we follow the calendar laid out first in Genesis 5, as I began to demonstrate above, we get to Noah's father Lamech, who was born 5,241 years from the creation of the world. If you'd like, we can go over each individual in Genesis 5 to show how we arrived at the year 5,241 for Lamech's birth year. Then we read that Lamech has a son after living for 182 years and names him Noah.

Genesis 5:28–29 (KJV 1900)
And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.


So, if Lamech was born when the world was 5,241 years old, and Noah was born when Lamech was 182 years old, then we know that Noah was born when the world was 5,423 years old (5,241 + 182). Now God is going to focus on Noah for some time because he has a very important account for us to learn regarding what happened in the time of the flood. And in Genesis 7:11, we're told exactly how old Noah was, to the day, when God shut the door to salvation (the ark).

Genesis 7:11 (KJV 1900)
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.


So, if we know what year Noah was born in, then we add the time given to us by the scriptures (Gen 7:11) and we can know that the flood occurred exactly 6,023 years, 2 months and 17 days from the creation of the world (5,423+600 years, 2 months & 17 days).

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #4

Post by historia »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm
The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself".
You mean like in this statement, from the preacher who came up with this May 21, 2011, date in the first place?
Harold Camping wrote:
We realize that many people are hoping they will know the date of Christ’s return. In fact for a time Family Radio fell into that kind of thinking.

But we now realize that those people who were calling our attention to the Bible’s statement that "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36 & Mark 13:32), were right in their understanding of those verses and Family Radio was wrong. Whether God will ever give us any indication of the date of His return is hidden in God’s divine plan.

We were even so bold as to insist that the Bible guaranteed that Christ would return on May 21 and that the true believers would be raptured. Yet this incorrect and sinful statement allowed God to get the attention of a great many people who otherwise would not have paid attention.

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #5

Post by bjs1 »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself". They say this confidently because that's what they plainly read in Mat 24:36 and Mark 13:32. Yet, they fail to understand what those passages are actually teaching because they fail to acknowledge that Christ did not speak without parables (Mat 13:34 & Mk 4:34).
Please tell me the meaning of the parable in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.

It seems to me that, if we read these passages as parables, then the meaning of these parables is that anyone who claims to know the day that Jesus returns is either mistaken or dishonest.

If you think that these parables have a different meaning, what is it?
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #6

Post by Eddie Ramos »

historia wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:22 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm
The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself".
You mean like in this statement, from the preacher who came up with this May 21, 2011, date in the first place?
Harold Camping wrote:
We realize that many people are hoping they will know the date of Christ’s return. In fact for a time Family Radio fell into that kind of thinking.

But we now realize that those people who were calling our attention to the Bible’s statement that "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36 & Mark 13:32), were right in their understanding of those verses and Family Radio was wrong. Whether God will ever give us any indication of the date of His return is hidden in God’s divine plan.

We were even so bold as to insist that the Bible guaranteed that Christ would return on May 21 and that the true believers would be raptured. Yet this incorrect and sinful statement allowed God to get the attention of a great many people who otherwise would not have paid attention.
I suppose if I were following Mr. Camping (the individual) then whatever he says I should say as well, right? But biblical truth doesn't work that way. Mr. Camping helped to lay out much information about the biblical calendar, but he wasn't the only one involved. And the article you are quoting was recorded after Mr. Camping's stroke shortly after May 21, 2011. Anyone who knew him knows that he never offered a position or correction without plenty of Bible studies to support his words. Yet he didn't do that with the article you quoted. So, again, if we were following him personally, then whatever he said must have been gospel to someone like me, yet it wasn't, if it contradicted the Word of God. Prior to that date, all who proclaimed that date, believed that that day would also be the rapture as well as judgment day. But when it came and went without anything physical happening, we were all humbled and many turned back. But those of us who continued to trust in the scriptures, went to the only place we could for answers, we went back to the Bible to see what went wrong, what we missed. The calendar had not changed, as all the numbers and dates lined up perfectly still. Then we learned that in the Bible, the most severe judgments were all spiritual in nature. Starting with the judgment that befell Adam and Eve.

Genesis 2:17 (KJV 1900)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Adam and Eve came under the judgment of God in the garden the day they sinned and died. Yet, they didn't die physically that day, but they did die spiritually, their soul died. This is what the Bible teaches to be a spiritual judgment.

Ezekiel 18:4 (KJV 1900)
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.


Judgment day, which we believed was going to be physical in nature, was actually a spiritual judgment.

Psalm 11:6 (KJV 1900)
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone,
And an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.


One such passage that teaches us this is Psalm 11:6 which tells us that not only will God rain down fire and brimstone upon the wicked (like many literally believe will happen), but it also says "snares" are going to rain down. Yet, no one literally believes that traps will be falling from heaven. There are many such like passages that have confirmed for us that judgment day did indeed begin on May 21, 2011 and that it is a spiritual judgment upon the unsaved of the world.

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

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Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

Judgment begins 1,000 years after the Second Coming, at which time all deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected from their graves.

Do you believe that the Second Coming occurred in the year 1011? If not, then Judgment did not begin in 2011.

There is no reason to begin judgment until those to be judged are present!

Most of those to be judged were still resting in their graves in the year 2011!

To say that judgment began in 2011 is ridiculous!

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

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Post by Eddie Ramos »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:13 pm [Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

Judgment begins 1,000 years after the Second Coming, at which time all deceased nonbelievers will be resurrected from their graves.

Do you believe that the Second Coming occurred in the year 1011? If not, then Judgment did not begin in 2011.

There is no reason to begin judgment until those to be judged are present!

Most of those to be judged were still resting in their graves in the year 2011!

To say that judgment began in 2011 is ridiculous!
Not sure where you're getting your judgment doctrine from, but it would help if you provided scriptures for everyone to examine.

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #9

Post by Eddie Ramos »

bjs1 wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:43 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:51 pm The other common statement made is that, "no man knows the day nor the hour (which is a reference to judgment day), not even Jesus himself". They say this confidently because that's what they plainly read in Mat 24:36 and Mark 13:32. Yet, they fail to understand what those passages are actually teaching because they fail to acknowledge that Christ did not speak without parables (Mat 13:34 & Mk 4:34).
Please tell me the meaning of the parable in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32.

It seems to me that, if we read these passages as parables, then the meaning of these parables is that anyone who claims to know the day that Jesus returns is either mistaken or dishonest.

If you think that these parables have a different meaning, what is it?
Sure thing. But your second sentence is incorrect. It's not those who read these scriptures as parables that believe as you stated, but it's those individuals who take those passages at face value who believe that no one can know when judgment day will be, not even Jesus. Therefore, according to that understanding, anyone who claims to know the day that Jesus returns is either mistaken or dishonest.

Now, let's start with Mat 24:36 along with its context.

Matthew 24:36–39 (KJV 1900)
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


So, right after telling us that of that day and hour (which is a parabolic way to say "judgment day") no man knows, Christ continues his thought in the very next verses by giving us an example of what he is actually teaching by what he just said. He's using the example of God's first judgment on the world, Noah's flood. He starts off by saying, "But, as the days of Noah were, SO shall the coming of the son of man be. The word, "so" is very important to understand because God uses this word in the Bible to mean "in like manner". In other words, "as the days of Noah were, in like manner shall the coming of the son of man be". Then he goes on to explain what he means by the phrase "no man knoweth", by associating that phrase with a group of people and using the words "they" and "them all" as the ones who knew not. Well, we have to ask, are the "they" ad "them all" referring to all of mankind who didn't know the day nor the hour of God's judgment upon the world that was then?

The answer is, no. There were 8 who did know the exact day when God's judgment would come. The 8 inside the ark.

Genesis 7:4 (KJV 1900)
For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.


SO, when we put all the evidence together, we understand that God is not saying that no man can know the day nor the hour, but is applying this to the unsaved only, as the context shows us. In other words, the not knowing has nothing to do with not knowing a date on a calendar, but it has to do with knowing (in the form of experiencing it). Because there came a point where even the unsaved knew. That's why verse 39 says about them, "and knew not UNTIL the flood (judgment) came and took them all away".

Now, Mark 13:32 helps us to confirm the fact that "not knowing" doesn't have anything to do with God revealing a date on a calendar because Jesus includes himself as those who "know not".

Mark 13:32 (KJV 1900)
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


Now, the common theory is that "even Jesus doesn't know when the date of his own return will be". Why? Because they're taking this passage at face value and neglecting the scriptures that tell us that Jesus did not speak without parables. So, when we look into this passage, we learn that Jesus included himself in order for us to know for sure that this is not talking about not knowing a date on a calendar. How so? Because of what we read in Job 24:1.

Job 24:1 (KJV 1900)
Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, Do they that know him not see his days?


And we know from the scriptures that Christ is indeed the Almighty.

Revelation 1:8 (KJV 1900)
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


So, if times are not hidden from the Almighty (from Christ), then this confirms for us that neither Matt 24:36 nor Mark 13:32 have a calendar date in view as not being able to know. But "knowing" in the Bible has to do with experiencing.

Ezekiel 6:11–13 (KJV 1900)
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence. 12 He that is far off shall die of the pestilence; and he that is near shall fall by the sword; and he that remaineth and is besieged shall die by the famine: thus will I accomplish my fury upon them. 13 Then shall ye know that I am the LORD, .....


Now we can understand Jesus' parabolic words in the 2 first passages. That no man knows the day nor the hour because no man has yet experienced God's judgment, neither the angels in heaven, this means the fallen angels, because at the time Christ spoke these words, they were not yet thrown out of heaven. "Neither the son" because Christ had not yet experienced God's judgment upon him at the time of the cross.

It also helps to understand that no where in the Bible did God ever bring about a judgment on a people without first disclosing it to his children. And judgment day was no different.

Ecclesiastes 8:5 (KJV 1900)
Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth both time and judgment.

Amos 3:7 (KJV 1900)
7  Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing,
But he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

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Re: May 21, 2011 BEGAN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT UPON THE WORLD

Post #10

Post by historia »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:02 pm
There are many such like passages that have confirmed for us that judgment day did indeed begin on May 21, 2011 and that it is a spiritual judgment upon the unsaved of the world.
You mean like how Seventh Day Adventists decided after William Miller's failed prediction of the end of the world in 1844 that that was really the start of a spiritual judgement?

Or when other Adventists decided after Jonas Wendell's failed prediction of the end of the world in 1874 that that was really the start of a spiritual judgement?

Or when Jehovah's Witnesses decided after Charles Taze Russell's failed prediction of the end of the world in 1914 that that was really the start of a spiritual judgement?

Or when Anglo-Israelites decided after David Davidson's failed prediction of the end of the world in 1936 that that was really the start of a spiritual judgement?
Ecclesiastes 1:9 wrote:
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

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