Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

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Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

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Post by Joe Citizen »

I've read the bible (old and new testaments) cover to cover twice in my life. I use the Student Bible of the International version. I'm now on my third time around, however I find myself really struggling with acceptance of the old testament and it is causing me lose my faith (which previously was very strong). The old testament is full of overt violence, aggression and atrocities..... all supposedly committed at the behest of God. For example, God telling the Israelites the slaughter very man, woman and child (numbering in the tens of thousands) in neighboring tribes many times, and actually punishing the Israelites for showing mercy (and therefore disobeying his orders). That does not sound like a kind, loving God. And, why didn't an omnipotent God just do this himself? So, it makes you doubt ALL of the old testament (and by extension the new testament too). I'm not sure how people are supposed to get moral lessons and directions for proper living from that. It seems to vary wildly from the more loving messages in the new testament, but even Jesus himself frequently refers back to the old testament, it's prophets and teachings.

There also are numerous laws/directives (Leviticus, Deuteronomy etc) , aside from the 10 commandments, that seem to have no point/purpose and don't seem to have anything to do with a loving message (ex: Don't cook a young goat in the milk of it's mother). Again, applying a logical mind, this leaves me with more and more doubts.

I rationalize the time period, the potential translational errors, the potential political interference etc., but logical analysis still leaves me shaken.

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

otseng wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:36 am Here's the ironic thing. If one just reads the Bible, it is easy to lose your faith.
I cannot agree. Even if one finds things curious or difficult to understand, just reading the bible is a facinating, entertaining, exciting read for anyone of faith. There is imho no way someone can accompany Adam and Eve in the garden, walk with Noah as he loads the animals, Abraham crossing the Ephrates, Moses as he frees the slaves, Daniel in the lions den, or listen to the inspiring words of one Jesus of Nazareth and come out with LESS faith. These people are inspiring, moving, infuriating, human and faith strengthening. This book did not survive this long WEAKENING people of faith, that is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.
A skeptic with no faith at all, on a fault finding mission will find plenty to criticize there's no doubt about that. But the paradox is, for hefty book like the bible, getting through all its pages requires a degree of dedication and focus that in my experience people with little or weak faith cannot actually muster and few if any infidels (outside of academia) have the stomach for.
Claims to have read all of the bible including every page of Leviticus or Deuteronomy are in my opinion to be taken with a grain of salt. In short, I believe those that are compeled to read every word of every page of the bible including the lists of names in Ezra and Numbers are moved by faith (or the desire to pass an exam). And those that have a love of God and a desire to know him better (graduates of theological higher schools of learning aside) cannot come out of the experience with less faith than when they began!



My 2.5 cents,



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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #12

Post by JoeyKnothead »

otseng wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:36 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:25 am
Joe Citizen wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:59 pm Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith
A testament to your fine reading compression and rational thinking skills.
Having studied the Bible for over 30 years and argued about the Bible on this forum for 19 years, I'm now even more convinced of the truthfulness of the Bible.

Here's the ironic thing. If one just reads the Bible, it is easy to lose your faith. However, if one studies the Bible, it generally leads to increasing your faith. We see this also with Jesus. He never made it easy to be a disciple. Things he said didn't make sense to most. He spoke in parables that needed to be decoded and not just taken at face value.

So, don't just read the Bible, but study the Bible.
I certainly appreciate what you're getting at here, but it just doesn't work for me.

I can't get through the first couple chapters without laughing at its silliness, or just realizing it's the 'wisdom' of folks who didn't have the knowledge we currently, collectively have.
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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #13

Post by Difflugia »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:13 am
otseng wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:36 am Having studied the Bible for over 30 years and argued about the Bible on this forum for 19 years, I'm now even more convinced of the truthfulness of the Bible.

Here's the ironic thing. If one just reads the Bible, it is easy to lose your faith. However, if one studies the Bible, it generally leads to increasing your faith. We see this also with Jesus. He never made it easy to be a disciple. Things he said didn't make sense to most. He spoke in parables that needed to be decoded and not just taken at face value.

So, don't just read the Bible, but study the Bible.
I certainly appreciate what you're getting at here, but it just doesn't work for me.

I can't get through the first couple chapters without laughing at its silliness, or just realizing it's the 'wisdom' of folks who didn't have the knowledge we currently, collectively have.
Even from the other approach, I find that study is exactly what has convinced me that the Bible is a human document. No two biblical authors share the same theology, often conflicting within the same biblical book. I would at least expect a consistent theology from a divinely architected work of holiness.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #14

Post by Purple Knight »

Joe Citizen wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:59 pmThe old testament is full of overt violence, aggression and atrocities..... all supposedly committed at the behest of God. For example, God telling the Israelites the slaughter very man, woman and child (numbering in the tens of thousands) in neighboring tribes many times, and actually punishing the Israelites for showing mercy (and therefore disobeying his orders). That does not sound like a kind, loving God.
You can either have faith, or not.

Do note though that we also punish criminals and I don't think you would be happy with it if I released all the inmates on Death Row. I might say, well, I don't know that they did anything. We also need to follow a bunch of weird rules we don't understand when we're children (and arguably, now, in society). The problem with this, and with the weird dogmatic prohibitions, is lack of knowledge. Discard how you feel about somebody doing something apparently horrid and see the real problem: Lack of knowledge.

That, and the fact that if God exists, he's a racist by modern definitions. The Jews are the ones with power and privilege if God exists, and the name of that power and privilege is Him. You can solve this issue though, in one of three ways:
1. The modern definition of racism is atrocious and does not describe an actual moral wrong.
2. God doesn't exist, so he's an understandable revenge fantasy of a disadvantaged group, not power or privilege for a favoured group.
3. God has special moral privilege (perhaps gained by knowledge) so him picking winners must be, for lack of our knowledge, permissible.

If you choose 3 we're back to lack of knowledge, which is the main issue here anyway. But we've solved the other main problem and added no extra problems so I argue for 3.

Lack of knowledge is a big deal. It comes down to what you think we should do when faced with a situation where someone with more knowledge than we have is doing something apparently awful. You can either trust that you are just wrong and they're good, or you can assume that what you see is the case and act from that despite the fact that you know your judgment is flawed. The person with more knowledge might be good. But he also might not be.

My determination is that being a good person cannot be a gameshow. It cannot be a matter of choosing door #2 and winning. Therefore, there has to be a right answer to this knowledge problem that we can see with what we have. Tell me yours.

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #15

Post by otseng »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:13 am I can't get through the first couple chapters without laughing at its silliness, or just realizing it's the 'wisdom' of folks who didn't have the knowledge we currently, collectively have.
This is precisely my point.

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #16

Post by otseng »

Difflugia wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:33 pm Even from the other approach, I find that study is exactly what has convinced me that the Bible is a human document. No two biblical authors share the same theology, often conflicting within the same biblical book. I would at least expect a consistent theology from a divinely architected work of holiness.
Actually, I don't disagree too much with this. But, I obviously reach a different conclusion and believe the Bible is still authoritative and reliable. The problem is coming to this point can take a long time and require deep study in many different fields if one has a high bar to believe in it. The thread How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant? is a testament to this. We've done deep dives in many different areas and as we go deeper, it turns out the Bible is more reasonable than secular beliefs. For example, it seems ridiculous to believe we are at the center of the universe. Then as we explore the cosmological evidence, it's much more rational to believe we are at the center than not in the center.

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #17

Post by otseng »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:01 am I cannot agree. Even if one finds things curious or difficult to understand, just reading the bible is a facinating, entertaining, exciting read for anyone of faith. There is imho no way someone can accompany Adam and Eve in the garden, walk with Noah as he loads the animals, Abraham crossing the Ephrates, Moses as he frees the slaves, Daniel in the lions den, or listen to the inspiring words of one Jesus of Nazareth and come out with LESS faith. These people are inspiring, moving, infuriating, human and faith strengthening. This book did not survive this long WEAKENING people of faith, that is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.
This might be true for people who have already drank the Kool-aid. But for those who have not, as evidenced by Joey's post, it typically does not work that way. And I do not believe Joey is unique in this.

Sure, simply reading the Bible for Christians can lead to greater faith. But for these people, it's rare that they will even go beyond this and start studying the Bible. What this would involve is to go to Bible studies, start learning the original languages, study other fields related to the Bible (archaeology, biology, cosmology, geology, history, math, philosophy, etc), use serious Bible study software, read commentaries, and learn about different perspectives of the Bible (one of the greatest gold mines missing from Christians is learning from the Jewish view of the Bible).

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #18

Post by JoeyKnothead »

otseng wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:37 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:13 am I can't get through the first couple chapters without laughing at its silliness, or just realizing it's the 'wisdom' of folks who didn't have the knowledge we currently, collectively have.
This is precisely my point.
I hear ya. I just can't divorce myself from what bit of reality I struggle to hang onto. (No slur to anyone but me - just trying to be open and honest)

I'll tell all who'll listen that you stand as a testament to how a good man can be had, who holds religious beliefs.

As for me, give me Grzimek's.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #19

Post by otseng »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:25 am I hear ya. I just can't divorce myself from what bit of reality I struggle to hang onto. (No slur to anyone but me - just trying to be open and honest)
You're not alone in this either. It's even personally indirectly affecting me by those closest to me.

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Re: Reading Bible is causing me to lose my faith

Post #20

Post by JehovahsWitness »

otseng wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:02 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:01 am I cannot agree. Even if one finds things curious or difficult to understand, just reading the bible is a facinating, entertaining, exciting read for anyone of faith. There is imho no way someone can accompany Adam and Eve in the garden, walk with Noah as he loads the animals, Abraham crossing the Ephrates, Moses as he frees the slaves, Daniel in the lions den, or listen to the inspiring words of one Jesus of Nazareth and come out with LESS faith. These people are inspiring, moving, infuriating, human and faith strengthening. This book did not survive this long WEAKENING people of faith, that is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.
This might be true for people who have already drank the Kool-aid. But for those who have not, as evidenced by Joey's post, it typically does not work that way. And I do not believe Joey is unique in this.
I havent read Joey's post but I suspect he is not writing from a place of faith. The OP is someone that claimed to have faith and that a simple reading of the stories of the bible weakened his faith. It is unnecessariky insulting to imply that anyone with faith that is inspired by the stories, must have to quote you, "already drank the Kool-aid" implying that the men and women of faith that may not have had the means and opportunity to study scripture, are not only gullible but victims of mind control and potentially self destructive.

Did Jesus himself not read the bible accounts? Did he not find them inspiring? Upon whom is Christianity based if not the simple (Jesus used the word "meek") farmers and washerwomen that flocked to listen to his stories? Did they come away with weakened faith because they were mind controlled semi-zombies?! Maybe I misunderstood your "kool aid" reference, but my point is simple: if you already have faith, reading the bible in its entireity cannot be a faith weakening experience.

Yes, there will be questions, yes, if those questions are not answered there may be frustration. But no, you don't have to be slightly mental to find the bible inspiring (you dont even have to be a believer) you just have to value inspiring stories. It does nobody any service to denegrade one of the most influencial books in human history to a collection of stories for the mentaly impaired.



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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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