Holy Spirit?

[Ross]

Hello, I am new to this forum and not a member of any church, or a churchgoer. I haven't been on a Bible discussion forum for many years.
I was recently asked to go on an 'Alpha course' to which I replied that I did not think there was any need for me to go on a Bible 'course' as there were no 'courses' in the time of the Apostles. This however caused me to investigate this further which revealed it is an introduction into the 'gifts' of evangelism which seems to be infiltrating most churches in recent years.
Then I watched YouTube videos which were quite shocking to me of people lying shaking on the ground in the isles of charismatic meetings as though in epileptic fits, others fainting with eyes rolling in their heads, wailing and crying, others in their 70's running on the spot and waving their arms out of control like stupid adolescents on drugs, and 'ministers' talking unintelligible Arabic sounding nonsense that they claimed was 'speaking in tongues.'
All in the name of 'Holy Spirit.' This is enough to keep me away from church with a barge pole.
Your comments would be greatly appreciated.
Is this The Holy Spirit?

[Ross]

[Replying to Ross in post #55]

You might find this video interesting. You might not be able to tell if you are watching Christians or another faith. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD3g5rg0CqE

I used to say things like maybe the devil is imitating the spirit, but perfectly? I doubt that.

I believe it is all demonic. Sorry if some are offended. And I hope I have not broken Board rules by saying that. If so, please accept my apology in advance.

I don't necessarily disagree.

Do you believe that modern day glossolalia is the authentic Holy Spirit speaking or working, or, in the case that it is not deliberately faked, that this may be sinister 'spirits?'

[Clownboat]

Do you believe that modern day glossolalia is the authentic Holy Spirit speaking or working, or, in the case that it is not deliberately faked, that this may be sinister 'spirits?'

You don't have to believe me of course, but there were no spirits or anything supernatural taking place at the revivals I attended. The drunkedness and losing control of the body was never something that couldn't be controlled. There was no outside source to be detected at all.

Have you ever got into a laughing fit with another person where you keep feeding off of each other? It was that kind of thing happening, not spirits at play in my experience.

[Ross]

Do you believe that modern day glossolalia is the authentic Holy Spirit speaking or working, or, in the case that it is not deliberately faked, that this may be sinister 'spirits?'

You don't have to believe me of course, but there were no spirits or anything supernatural taking place at the revivals I attended. The drunkedness and losing control of the body was never something that couldn't be controlled. There was no outside source to be detected at all.

Have you ever got into a laughing fit with another person where you keep feeding off of each other? It was that kind of thing happening, not spirits at play in my experience.

Yes I have.
I am now talking about glossolalia, speaking in tongues in modern day evangelism. It's a slightly different subject.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Ross in post #73]

There is no way this sort of thing can be explained in a single post because there is so much involved. Therefore, allow me to whet your appetite by getting you to think for yourself. On the Day of Pentecost described in Acts, how many languages do you suppose were represented? Do the historical research for yourself. There would have been only three languages represented, all three of which most of these folks would have been able to communicate in. The overwhelming historical evidence is, the only three languages represented would have been, Greek, Aramaic, and or Hebrew, with many in the crowd being able to communicate in all three languages, including the Apostles. In chapter 2 of Acts verse 13, there were those in the crowd who were accusing the Apostles of being drunk. Okay, let's think about this for a moment? Most folks who are drunk, have trouble speaking in their own native language, correct? Therefore, what in the world would cause those in the crowd to suppose the Apostles were drunk, because they were speaking in a language which would have been foreign to them? This would make no sense. The next clue comes in the very next verse which says, "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice". In other words, Peter is addressing the whole crowd at one time. Therefore, how many languages could Peter speak in at one time in order for the whole crowd to understand him? In other words, this certainly suggests Peter was speaking in one language, and yet at least most of the whole crowd was able to understand what he was saying, which certainly seems to suggest, most the whole crowd shared a common language.

Okay, with this being established, let us move on to chapter 21 and 22 of Acts in order to determine that most folks at the time were at the very least bi-lingual, if not tri-lingual. Starting in chapter 21 and verse 40 where it says, "When he had given him permission, Paul stood on the stairs and motioned with his hand to the people. When there was great silence, he addressed them in the Hebrew language, saying". Now, as we move on to the very next chapter which is chapter 22 and verse 2 we read,

"When they heard that he addressed them in the Hebrew language, they became even more quiet".

This certainly seems to demonstrate that at least most of the crowd had an understanding of at least two different languages. With what we have discussed thus far, it seems as if the gift of tongues had nothing to do with speaking a language which would be foreign to the one speaking.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Ross in post #55]

You might find this video interesting. You might not be able to tell if you are watching Christians or another faith. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD3g5rg0CqE

I used to say things like maybe the devil is imitating the spirit, but perfectly? I doubt that.

I believe it is all demonic. Sorry if some are offended. And I hope I have not broken Board rules by saying that. If so, please accept my apology in advance.

I don't necessarily disagree.

Do you believe that modern day glossolalia is the authentic Holy Spirit speaking or working, or, in the case that it is not deliberately faked, that this may be sinister 'spirits?'

I do not. The church teaches that tongues were for the apostles to spread the word at the time so they could be understood by everyone.

[JehovahsWitness]

Then I watched YouTube videos which were quite shocking to me of people lying shaking on the ground in the isles of charismatic meetings as though in epileptic fits, others fainting with eyes rolling in their heads, wailing and crying, others in their 70's running on the spot and waving their arms out of control like stupid adolescents on drugs...Is this The Holy Spirit?

The only accounts in the scriptures of people rolling around in uncontrolled "fits" in the scriptures is when they were under demonic possession. Self control is one of the evidences of the holy spirit.



JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[Ross]

The only accounts in the scriptures of people rolling around in uncontrolled "fits" in the scriptures is when they were under demonic possession. Self control is one of the evidences of the holy spirit.
JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Good Lord! For once I agree with Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Clownboat]

The only accounts in the scriptures of people rolling around in uncontrolled "fits" in the scriptures is when they were under demonic possession. Self control is one of the evidences of the holy spirit.
JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Good Lord! For once I agree with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Again, take my first hand experience for what it is worth.
There are no spirits or demons involved in this all too real church exercise.

Just consider how ridiculous the statement is to even utter. Demons are possessing church goers into believing they are experiencing the Holy Spirit.
Don't believe the hype.

[Ross]

Just consider how ridiculous the statement is to even utter. Demons are possessing church goers into believing they are experiencing the Holy Spirit.

I fail to believe how ridiculous the spectacle of it is to observe. Churchgoers loosing their minds and their bodies and their control.
You seem almost desperate to defend or rationalise it.

[Ross]

Again, take my first hand experience for what it is worth.
There are no spirits or demons involved in this all too real church exercise.

I hope this is breaking Board rules, but I would conclude the phenomenon is either:

1/ The Holy Spirit
2/ Complete and despicable man made deception
3/ Demonic or sinister spiritualistic activity
4/ A bunch of complete nut cases