JehovahsWitness and them 144,000

[Conversator]

Alright, a little background. I live in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood, and one day some JehovahsWitnesses came into our neighborhood and caused problems. They knocked on my door, told me I'm going to hell and asked if I was OK with that. They also said something about 144,000 people go to heaven and offered to sell me a pamplhet that talked about it. It was two bucks by the way, and no, I didn't buy it.

A few days later our synagogue was vandalized, the camera footage was reviewed and it was the same two JehovahsWitnesses who had knocked on my door. They broke two windows and threw a dead cat in there. They were jailed, but not charged with a hate crime, but that's another story altogether.

Out of curiosity, what did that two dollar pamphlet say? I doubt it said to kill cats and break windows. 144,000 people go to heaven? OK, fair enough its your religion, but how do those 144,000 merit entrance into heaven? Please don't say, selling two dollar pamphlets.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
This is another fundamental concept that is dismissed in skepticism, all the while a nonbeliever admits order in nature (usually only to a degree, ultimately without God people usually admit that nature is of random accidents)... But truly there must be order... all of existence speaks of order.
...

This depends on the subjective nature of the word "order", and to the degree of detail with which one considers that order.

Where some see a crag, others see "order".

[Shem Yoshi]

There is nothing that points to a 5 coming from the data you supplied.

I see where you are struggling... the five pointed pentagram is mentioned because the internal angles being associated with the mark of the beast (end of Rev 13) and the the number 144 (beginning of Rev 14)...

3 bottom points make up the internal angle of 216 (6*6*6)
while 2 points on top make up the internal angle of 144 (12*12)

these angles make up a 5 points pentagram, totaling 360 degrees.

It is still a bit of a mystery where 360 degrees comes from, but it is theorized to go back all to Babylon, to the captivity of Israel.. Somehow coming they started to put 360 degrees in a circle.

[Shem Yoshi]

You can easily calculate this too.

if you have 5 even sections of a circle... Say you cut a pie into 5 pieces, each piece will have an internal angle of 360 degrees divided by 5... 360/5=72... each piece has an internal angle of 72... now if you take two pieces and put them together you get 144 (72*2), and if you put the bottom three pieces together you get 216 (72*3).

It just so happens that 6*6*6 equates to the same number of the degrees of 3 points (or three pieces of pie), 216. While 12*12 just so happens to equate to 2 points (or two pieces of pie) 144.


Note that even the number 72*3=216 has association with the longest name of God...

"The 72-fold name is highly important to Sefer Raziel HaMalakh. It is derived from Exodus 14:19–21, read boustrophedonically to produce 72 names of three letters."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_HaMephorash

I still have no clue how this 'explicit name of god' was derived... what inspired it to be derived from those verses, i dont know.

[Purple Knight]

The sooner religion goes away (I know, keep dreaming), the sooner we have one less thing to be violent over with each other.

So I agree with this because you said it removes a reason. It may remove many more than one reason. There was a South Park episode that played with this concept and sees Erik Cartman arrive in the far future where religion is gone and the atheists are not unified and killing each other over what to call themselves. The reason this is funny is because it portrays people as the fundamental problem - people and their desire to find something to fight over. That's what needs to go next: The human need to compete to the point of violence and harm.

Even after that, I do think some of our differences are fundamentally irreducible. I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent. They see it as a person and they're defending it. I don't see it as a person so I have to defend the woman's right to have it out of her. That's fundamentally irreducible. That's actually an example of the only fundamentally irreducible: Who gets rights?

[Shem Yoshi]

Christianity teaches us that we are saved by God, even the name of God.
"They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." (Rev 22:4)

But that some will receive the mark of the beast where God's name ought to be...

"16 It [the beast] also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads," (Rev 13)

However I believe God is greater then any sin, even the mark of the beast, so a name of God was derived to wash away the mark of the beast, both having the same amount of characters, 216. That name is The "72-fold name", talked about here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_HaMephorash

"Kabbalist legends state that the 72-fold name was used by Moses to cross the Red Sea, and that it could grant later holy men the power to cast out demons, heal the sick, prevent natural disasters, and even kill enemies."


18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666. (Rev 13)

When it says it is "the number of a man", that the mark of the beast is the number of a man, i believe that anyone that isnt guided by God is reduced down to nothing more then natural like influences. Like a beast... And even evolution teaches people that they are nothing more then beast of the field... However, Rev teaches us to "calculate" the number of the beast, and surely no beast has that ability, to calculate its numbers.

Man has the ability to be more then a beast. God gave us that ability

[Diogenes]

The sooner religion goes away (I know, keep dreaming), the sooner we have one less thing to be violent over with each other.

So I agree with this because you said it removes a reason. It may remove many more than one reason. There was a South Park episode that played with this concept and sees Erik Cartman arrive in the far future where religion is gone and the atheists are not unified and killing each other over what to call themselves. The reason this is funny is because it portrays people as the fundamental problem - people and their desire to find something to fight over. That's what needs to go next: The human need to compete to the point of violence and harm.

Even after that, I do think some of our differences are fundamentally irreducible. I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent. They see it as a person and they're defending it. I don't see it as a person so I have to defend the woman's right to have it out of her. That's fundamentally irreducible. That's actually an example of the only fundamentally irreducible: Who gets rights?

I was going to agree with this until you got to "I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent." Blowing up buildings and killing physicians is certainly violent and hateful. And it likely does not prevent abortion whether or not a woman has a right to control her body and what is in it.

[JoeyKnothead]

I was going to agree with this until you got to "I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent." Blowing up buildings and killing physicians is certainly violent and hateful. And it likely does not prevent abortion whether or not a woman has a right to control her body and what is in it.

Blowing folks up is just a really, really late term abortion.

[Shem Yoshi]

I was going to agree with this until you got to "I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent." Blowing up buildings and killing physicians is certainly violent and hateful. And it likely does not prevent abortion whether or not a woman has a right to control her body and what is in it.

Blowing folks up is just a really, really late term abortion.

lol... ya who's to judge...

[JoeyKnothead]

I was going to agree with this until you got to "I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent." Blowing up buildings and killing physicians is certainly violent and hateful. And it likely does not prevent abortion whether or not a woman has a right to control her body and what is in it.

Blowing folks up is just a really, really late term abortion.

lol... ya who's to judge...

Apparently the guy with the bomb.

[Shem Yoshi]

I was going to agree with this until you got to "I don't see the people who blow up Planned Parenthood as hateful, competitive, or violent." Blowing up buildings and killing physicians is certainly violent and hateful. And it likely does not prevent abortion whether or not a woman has a right to control her body and what is in it.

Blowing folks up is just a really, really late term abortion.

lol... ya who's to judge...

Apparently the guy with the bomb.

Well the ironic thing is in the other thread we are debating about morality and you are saying morality is subjective...

Maybe the late late term abortions are actually something that is... (i was going to say good but in subjectivism that wouldnt exist)...

If morality is subjective, abortion is just someones preference, and late late term abortions, murder, mass murder, etc, is someones preference.