Does Christ speak and how?

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Does Christ speak and how?

Post #1

Post by tam »

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."
(Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #401

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:49 pm Clearly from the witness re the words of the poster, she feels that she cannot be an atheist without the meds which help her not to investigate the voices/visions further.

Perhaps the Pirahã can be convinced to take medications and finally convert to atheism?

Or, they could approach it from another direction, as did the women in this video:



This allows for the path of theism to continue to be investigated as a valid idea.
Why did you type all these words?
Have you corrected your thinking on atheists yet, that they can be atheists and believe in ghost for example?

Remember this claim of yours?: "and that if any did profess to do so, they would not be counted as atheists."

The bold has been shown to be untrue and to continue to make such a claim would be to purposefully spread misinformation.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #402

Post by William »

[Replying to Clownboat in post #401]

Your attempt at diverting the conversation away from the OP subject, is noted.

My preference is to remain on topic:

[Replying to Clownboat in post #400]
William, if you make weird statements like these and desire a reply, try forming a question. Just a little advice...
The statements are based in theism Clownboat. The reason they appear weird to you, has to do with why you insist on being an atheist.

"We each are personalities growing through the human experience, and there is more to us than simply the image we present to the world/each other," - is from a theistic viewpoint, where "Soul" is that which is grown - "a personality" is another way of saying "A Soul".

""Knowing thyself" means knowing the intimate relationship between all the Archetypes and their involvement with the growing Personality" - has to do with how the personality can reach a full understanding of what it is [a Soul] and Jung's Archetypes have been mentioned in prior posts to do with this concept re human science - in this case, The Four Carl Jung Archetypes...
Carl Jung identified four main archetypes—the persona, the shadow, the anima or animus and the self. These are a result of collective, shared ancestral memories that may persist in art, literature and religion but aren’t obvious to the eye. These recurring themes help us understand the Jungian archetypes.

These Jungian archetypes represent a journey from an unconscious state to individuation—a merging of the conscious and the unconscious.{SOURCE}
Part of your argument appears to be that in order for one to become an atheist, one has to be able to deal with the voices/visions one experiences, and the best way to do that, is to take meds and become 'normal'.

The video I linked gives an example of an alternative to that - where one does not have to resort to becoming an atheist, or resort to using meds to help one maintain the preferred position of believing that Souls do not exist.

Such belief is equivalent to one declaring that one's personality does not exist.

That is why I made the comment "Perhaps the Pirahã can be convinced to take medications and finally convert to atheism?"

The evidence you have given to argue that atheism can allow folk to still believe in Ghosts et al and call themselves 'atheists' has only shown that meds are required and the Ghosts et al are then considered to not being Ghosts et al, and thus Ghosts et al are NOT believed by atheist to being real.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #403

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:19 pm Part of your argument appears to be that in order for one to become an atheist, one has to be able to deal with the voices/visions one experiences, and the best way to do that, is to take meds and become 'normal'.
Please copy and paste an argument of mine that makes such proclamations or kindly retract your statement for being nothing more than the dissemination of misinformation.
The video I linked gives an example of an alternative to that - where one does not have to resort to becoming an atheist, or resort to using meds to help one maintain the preferred position of believing that Souls do not exist.
Please stop posting uniteresting and off topic things. If you want to discuss atheists and taking meds, because souls, be my guest, but please don't pretend that I'm interested in such a conversation. Especially when you are ignoring my paper that doesn't talk about taking meds. The paper I mentioned discusses how humans evolved in an environment where we became hyper sensative to assigning agency to things. If this is not interesting for you, there is no need to even comment and even less of a need to bring up taking meds.
That is why I made the comment "Perhaps the Pirahã can be convinced to take medications and finally convert to atheism?"
Got it, so you have some belief about atheists taking meds. Can you make it interesting? If so, perhaps someone might care. Until then, what's your take on humans evolving in an environment where we became hyper sensative to assigning agency to things? If it seems unreasonable for any reason, I would like to hear.
The evidence you have given to argue that atheism can allow folk to still believe in Ghosts et al and call themselves 'atheists' has only shown that meds are required and the Ghosts et al are then considered to not being Ghosts et al, and thus Ghosts et al are NOT believed by atheist to being real.
I have only shown that atheists can and do believe in things such as ghosts. Atheists do not hold theistic views, as those are about gods. Something that atheists don't find credible to believe in. Unlike ghosts (for some).

Do you now accept that some atheists can and do believe in ghosts while still being atheists?
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #404

Post by William »

[Replying to Clownboat in post #403]
Part of your argument appears to be that in order for one to become an atheist, one has to be able to deal with the voices/visions one experiences, and the best way to do that, is to take meds and become 'normal'.
Please copy and paste an argument of mine that makes such proclamations or kindly retract your statement for being nothing more than the dissemination of misinformation.
Like I said. "Appears to be".

If that is not part of your argument, why did you link the reader to a post where an atheist is saying they are thankful for the meds they take as it helps her to remain an atheist?
he paper I mentioned discusses how humans evolved in an environment where we became hyper sensative to assigning agency to things. If this is not interesting for you, there is no need to even comment and even less of a need to bring up taking meds.
I gave my answer re the hyper-sensitive argument, in Post #385. I re post that, for the convenience of the attentive reader, as well as request that you pay more attention in further Clownboat. Have you answered my observations below?

Being "hypersensitive" suggests that there is a problem in that. I acknowledge that there could be a problem with that, but that there needn't be a problem with that, as long as the individual personality understand this emotional side of their overall Personality, and does not have it in a commanding position over the other Archetypes involved within the human psyche.

Theism - the mystical branch especially - understands this to being a disciplinary procedure which is referred/described in many ways, but essential it is the process of "Knowing Thyself" re philosophical processes. Knowing thyself means knowing the intimate relationship between all the Archetypes and their involvement with the growing Personality.

Being 'hypersensitive" is conducive to the process, if one remembers not to react overly emotionally that all other Archetype reactions, are consigned to the back-bench.
Do you now accept that some atheists can and do believe in ghosts while still being atheists?
Not from what you have presented as evidence so far. The links you gave the reader, only shows us that hyper-sensitivity is seen as a problem to those who hold the atheist position, and that atheists believe that spirits and ghosts are products of an abnormal brain, which can be fixed with meds.

NOT, that atheist can believe in spirits as actually existing. There is a huge difference, which you appear to be ignoring in order to argue that atheist can and do believe in spirits/ghosts.

I am satisfied that the evidence you have presented does not show that atheists actually believe in the existence of ghosts.

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #405

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:58 pm I am satisfied that the evidence you have presented does not show that atheists actually believe in the existence of ghosts.
What you believe does not change reality.

Atheists still believe in the supernatural, new report finds
A new report indicates atheists and agnostics still believe in supernatural phenomena despite not believing in gods. They tend to hold these beliefs at lower rates than the general population.
https://bigthink.com/thinking/atheist-supernatural/

Just leaving this here for all the readers to see. You can lead a horse to water...
Yup, there are real people that believe an A-theist, or anti-theists is a Theist for believing in ghosts. Let that one sink in everyone!
Good luck William... :lol:
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #406

Post by William »

{SOURCE}
A new report indicates atheists and agnostics still believe in supernatural phenomena despite not believing in gods.
That remains to be verified. Let's read on...
They tend to hold these beliefs at lower rates than the general population.
What is the "general population" being referred to here?
This is in line with previous studies that show non-believers are just as prone to irrational thinking as their religious counterparts.
Ah - the bias inferring the premise. "Irrational Thinking is a "thing" that '"the religious" suffer"

What are these "irrational thoughts" it is implied that atheists have?...lets read on...

Okay the very first paragraph sets the scene. "Religious folk are persecuting atheists."

The second paragraph explains a study into how this supposed religious persecution can be explained and countered, by "understanding unbelief".
Perhaps more interesting, though, is the section of the completed report that indicates, despite their skepticism on the subject of God, many unbelievers still hold superstitious beliefs.
This would be another way of saying "suffer from irrational thinking".
As you can see in the above graph, up to a third of self-declared atheists in China believe in astrology. A quarter of Brazilian atheists believe in reincarnation, and a similar number of their Danish counterparts think some people have magical powers.
The problem right there is that the results are fudged in the description of the graph made from the study.

It really should read as follows:
As you can see in the above graph, up to a third of self-declared atheists in China believe in astrology. A quarter of Brazilian self-declared atheists believe in reincarnation, and a similar number of their Danish self-declared atheists counterparts think some people have magical powers.

The graph can now be understood to be that people self-declared as atheists, are still declaring they are influenced by irrational things which are linked to theism, even that the influences causing the irrational thinking aren't as strong as with 'the general population'
Agnostics were more likely to believe in supernatural phenomena than atheists across the board. Notice how the graphs have similar patterns but with different point values.

Understanding Unbelief (2019)

The general population, however, continues to believe in these phenomena at a much higher rate than non-believers.
And there we have it. The "Non-believers" rather than as Clownboat declares "The believers in ghosts and such"

I am satisfied that the evidence Clownboat has presented, does not show that atheists actually believe in the existence of ghosts et al, and the article even refers to these atheists as "non-believers" - just one's who are still under the influence of supposed [re the bias] "irrational thinking"

I have nothing more to say about it, re this, the "Does Christ speak and how?" thread,

I have created another thread to explore the deeper ramifications of those self declaring to being 'atheists' - The reader can view that thread topic HERE

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Re: Does Christ speak and how?

Post #407

Post by Clownboat »

William wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:49 pm I am satisfied that the evidence Clownboat has presented, does not show that atheists actually believe in the existence of ghosts et al
Which pieces of evidence as I linked to more than one to show that my words were true?

I personally know at least one atheists that believes in ghosts.
It's not a hard concepts to grasp, not finding any god claims as credible, yet finding ghost claims as credible.

William, amending your thinking is a powerful thing and leads to better knowledge. Atheists can and some even do believe in ghosts.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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