Should I become an atheist and why?

[Wootah]

Should I become an atheist and why?

What are the benefits, practices, beliefs? Any good conversion stories?

[Shem Yoshi]

I think the question stands.

It wasn't a question though, it was a statement.
Copy/paste: "It really doesnt matter... If atheism is true, and scientific materialism is true, nothing really matters."

Things do matter to the rest of us.

Yes I know things matter to people, I believe things do matter, I believe truths can be objective, and all people appeal to some kinds of truths. Under my view all people are made in the image of God, and that truths actually exists beyond mere opinion, and therefor it is completely rational that everyone ought to appeal to truths and things ought to matter.

The problem arises when there is no sufficient reason to establish those foundations for truth, as in materialism, and atheism.

I fully believe that you understand that things matter. I just dont think you can make sense of why they matter, or establish a foundation for purpose and truth... That is the problem.

According to materialism, which holds that nothing exist beyond the physicals world, no Gods, nothing supernatural, then all human knowledge is therefor derived from nothing more then the human brain... The brain fizzing...

So which is true, Mountain Dew or Dr. Pepper?

[Diogenes]

I would prefer some god existed and bequeathed us with universal morality.

This is sad. We do not need a 'God' to tell us some universal morality. We already have it. We have evolved to believe in a universal morality. This has happened thru natural selection. Social species that survived did so because cooperation enabled them to survive better than species that did not cooperate. Even animals have morality. This has been amply demonstrated. I have published here Frans De Waal's TED talk many times. You can ignore the evidence or evaluate it. But don't bother to yak away unless you first view this entertaining lecture.

I think PK has a point re morality. I have not watched the video as yet, but will do.
My current thoughts are also on intelligent animals behaving immorally. Dolphins pack raping females. Orca killing whales just to eat the tongues of their victims. The morals may benefit the social construct of the specie, but apparently, so do the immoral behavior's.

If evolution provides the opportunity for morals to develop in sentient species, are we able to see evidence of this in the actions of these sentient sea-critters? Shouldn't we be able to see evidence of understanding incorrect behavior's and evidence of morality replacing immorality, if that were the case?

A distinction needs to be made re: animal morality. It is generally confined to morals within the species or tribe. We see this distinction clearly with the animal homo sapiens. Even their religions tend to be tribal. This is clearly seen in the Torah where there is a prohibition of slavery among Hebrews; i.e., a Hebrew was not allowed to enslave a fellow Hebrew, but was free to take slaves from other tribes.
Leviticus 25 is representative:

39 “If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave: 40 he shall be with you as a hired worker and as a sojourner. He shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee. 41 Then he shall go out from you, he and his children with him, and go back to his own clan and return to the possession of his fathers. 42 For they are my servants,[e] whom I brought out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as slaves. 43 You shall not rule over him ruthlessly but shall fear your God. 44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

[Clownboat]

I think the question stands.

It wasn't a question though, it was a statement.
Copy/paste: "It really doesnt matter... If atheism is true, and scientific materialism is true, nothing really matters."

Things do matter to the rest of us.

Yes I know things matter to people, I believe things do matter, I believe truths can be objective, and all people appeal to some kinds of truths. Under my view all people are made in the image of God, and that truths actually exists beyond mere opinion, and therefor it is completely rational that everyone ought to appeal to truths and things ought to matter.

The problem arises when there is no sufficient reason to establish those foundations for truth, as in materialism, and atheism.

I fully believe that you understand that things matter. I just dont think you can make sense of why they matter, or establish a foundation for purpose and truth... That is the problem.

According to materialism, which holds that nothing exist beyond the physicals world, no Gods, nothing supernatural, then all human knowledge is therefor derived from nothing more then the human brain... The brain fizzing...

So which is true, Mountain Dew or Dr. Pepper?

Actually, the problems arise when humans pretend that there is a god concept that informed them of what is moral.
Genocide is wrong and I don't care what god concept is claimed to have ordered it.
Sacrificing your children is wrong and I don't care what god concept is claimed to have ordered it.
Killing homosexuals is wrong...
Slavery...
Need I go on?

Notice that I made these claims that I'm sure you agree with me about without pointing to a god. These terrible claims were only made because of the gods, so don't look to the gods for morality.
Mountain Dew and Dr. Pepper are a lie, see Coke.

[Purple Knight]

I would prefer some god existed and bequeathed us with universal morality.

This is sad. We do not need a 'God' to tell us some universal morality. We already have it. We have evolved to believe in a universal morality. This has happened thru natural selection. Social species that survived did so because cooperation enabled them to survive better than species that did not cooperate. Even animals have morality. This has been amply demonstrated. I have published here Frans De Waal's TED talk many times. You can ignore the evidence or evaluate it. But don't bother to yak away unless you first view this entertaining lecture.

I watched it. I already knew about the grape and cucumber capuchins, but it was nice to actually see it. I admit I lol'd. What he said at the end is that there were a few pairs of chimps who would reject their grape because the other guy got a cucumber. I believe that, because it's a few. And I don't believe those few pairs were strangers and they probably weren't non-Bonobos either.

I don't see what animals having a concept of cooperation or even fairness has to do with humans, who as far as I can see, do not. If I get the grape, they will say, you ought to share, that is moral, and then I have to give over the grape. If I get the cucumber, it will be, too bad so sad free market be a better negotiator. If the animal way is in line with the thinking of whoever is browbeating me, they will cite it, but if the animal way is not, they will just say, what the animal has is instinct but what we have is different since it's actually morality.

And I have nothing to say against either because both have that flag of morality being universal when I know it isn't. The best I have is what you just told me: The animal way, that evolved to reward cooperation simply because it worked. That way will be denounced by high moralists (and rightly, as far as I see) as selfish, nasty, tribalist, nepotist, and racist.

You do realise that the animal way justifies tribalism and even racism, right? That should be enough to refute it right there as a basis for morality.

"Cooperate because it benefits you?" they will say, "Yes, that's what a filthy animal like you does, you're right. To be a human being, you must cooperate even if it will hurt you. It's not transactional. Of course I bully you and insult you. If you were a human being you would return that with kindness. The fact that you're not willing to is what makes you a bad person and worthy of being treated badly." This is literally the treatment I get if I bring up the things you brought up as a foundation for morality.

Reference:

[Purple Knight]

I think the question stands. How do you establish truth?

Moral truth, yes. How do I say I have rights? I don't know that I do. William is correct that animal morality is tribalistic, which modern human morality rejects as wholly evil. I've been told I'm a bad person, and bad people do not have rights in society. I have no basis to disagree.

I'm only here in the first place because I am trying to become a good person. That at least means studying religion if not accepting it. Religion is not the end-all-be-all of being good, but a study of goodness cannot proceed without acknowledging figures like Jesus whether they're fantastical or not. And studying religion means interacting with real religious people.

[Wootah]

Should I become an atheist and why?

What are the benefits, practices, beliefs? Any good conversion stories?

Yes, give it a shot. I think it takes little convincing. As Christopher Hitchens said, " whatever reasons you use to reject every other deity, simply apply them to your own." As far as the benefits of atheism, I imagine a bit of stress relief, i.e. no spirtual forces messing with me. No holy book to try to figure out. Don't have to go to church, observe holy days, rituals, or get frustrated with unanswered prayers or be burdened with theological mysteries, why God allows suffering etc. I don't think boredom would be an issue though, there's plenty of hobbies to do. But, there's the nagging what if I'm wrong dilemma, but religious people gave that too.

Hitchens - "whatever reasons you use to reject every other deity, simply apply them to your own."

Yes, but I followed Hitchens's advice and here I am as a Christian. I wonder where Hitchens would be if he listened to his own advice.

[Shem Yoshi]

I think the question stands.

It wasn't a question though, it was a statement.
Copy/paste: "It really doesnt matter... If atheism is true, and scientific materialism is true, nothing really matters."

Things do matter to the rest of us.

Yes I know things matter to people, I believe things do matter, I believe truths can be objective, and all people appeal to some kinds of truths. Under my view all people are made in the image of God, and that truths actually exists beyond mere opinion, and therefor it is completely rational that everyone ought to appeal to truths and things ought to matter.

The problem arises when there is no sufficient reason to establish those foundations for truth, as in materialism, and atheism.

I fully believe that you understand that things matter. I just dont think you can make sense of why they matter, or establish a foundation for purpose and truth... That is the problem.

According to materialism, which holds that nothing exist beyond the physicals world, no Gods, nothing supernatural, then all human knowledge is therefor derived from nothing more then the human brain... The brain fizzing...

So which is true, Mountain Dew or Dr. Pepper?

Actually, the problems arise when humans pretend that there is a god concept that informed them of what is moral.
Genocide is wrong and I don't care what god concept is claimed to have ordered it.
Sacrificing your children is wrong and I don't care what god concept is claimed to have ordered it.
Killing homosexuals is wrong...
Slavery...
Need I go on?

Notice that I made these claims that I'm sure you agree with me about without pointing to a god. These terrible claims were only made because of the gods, so don't look to the gods for morality.
Mountain Dew and Dr. Pepper are a lie, see Coke.

It just so happens that the thing you listed as being wrong, all are established as being wrong by Christianity. We have a foundation for that. However without a foudnation, what exactly are you appealing to to establish these things are wrong? Is it your mere opinion? Anyones personal opinion can be wrong... Is it society? Societies opinion can be wrong, we have many examples. Is it an appeal to emotions? Emotions can mislead us, we have many examples. What is it?

I believe we understand these things are wrong because God has established his truth that these things are wrong, when Jesus revolutionized the thinking of western civilization 2000 years ago, saying not to hurt children (Matthew 18:6), Not only not kill people but not to hate people (Matthew 5:21), that all people are equal (Galatians 3:28), that know one has right to cast a stone (John 8).

I completely agree with you that there IS an objective morality with these issues, and it is no surprise that anyone of us should appeal to such things for Jesus Christ has influenced the truth we know today, but without God where is it you can establish any truth?

The Nazi's thought they were doing the world a favor by killing Jew's, and surely it was rationalized by the science of natural selection. How would you be able to go agianst a rational argument that would use science like that? How can you establish foundational truth?

You answer Coke... And so be it... But how is it Coke would be any different then Mountain Dew or Dr. Pepper? It is all the same... Anyone's ideas influenced by the fizzing in their brain, has root in all human experiences. How would one fizz be more valid then another?

[brunumb]

But if scientific materialism is true, and the physical world is all there is, and humans consciousness is nothing more then a brain fizzing with chemicals... Then what does it matter what you believe?

A lot, if it means demonising certain groups of people, restricting their human rights, encouraging hate and even the killing of some people. Religious belief is not as benign as you might like to think it is. For example, hop across to Nigeria where believers are killing people believed to be witches. Maybe flying planes into buildings because your god says it's a good thing doesn't really matter.

Even if we are just brains fizzing with chemicals (enough already) we are still thinking, feeling and caring beings who deserve to live out whatever life we have in the best way possible.

For clarification... Do you believe abortion is ok?

I am not opposed to abortion.

[brunumb]

The problem arises when there is no sufficient reason to establish those foundations for truth, as in materialism, and atheism.

Or even theism.

I fully believe that you understand that things matter. I just dont think you can make sense of why they matter, or establish a foundation for purpose and truth... That is the problem.

It is not necessary to make sense of why they matter. Inventing a god as a foundation for purpose or truth does nothing to establish either.

[William]

The problem arises when there is no sufficient reason to establish those foundations for truth, as in materialism, and atheism.

Or even theism.

I fully believe that you understand that things matter. I just dont think you can make sense of why they matter, or establish a foundation for purpose and truth... That is the problem.

It is not necessary to make sense of why they matter.

Why not?

Inventing a god as a foundation for purpose or truth does nothing to establish either.

Rejecting a god as a foundation for purpose or truth does nothing to establish anything either.