Should I become an atheist and why?

[Wootah]

Should I become an atheist and why?

What are the benefits, practices, beliefs? Any good conversion stories?

[Diogenes]

I suppose someone could theorize that a bunch of brains that fizz could agrees to laws, like a collected common sense of brain fizz... Multiple brains could accept established agreed upon law.. Lets say that law is Liberty, and Equality (to mention a few) which i think all people should respect regardless of religious beliefs...

However a collective common sense of brain fizz can lead to mass genocide as well... The Nazi's, and what have you?

You make two great errors. The first is one you've uttered ad nauseam, referring to the amazing and complex interaction of 100 billion neurons with over 100 TRILLION connections as "brain fizz." This devaluation of a wondrous process is a distortion of such magnitude as to be almost indistinguishable from a lie.

Your other great error is your mention of genocide. As I've outlined explicitly human morality only applies within the species or tribe. The morality of the Bible is exactly the same, applying morality only within the tribe. "God" repeatedly tells the Israelites to commit genocide against other tribes (including the murder of children), to steal their possessions and givies them permission to enslave other tribes. In this respect the "God" of Israel has the same morality of the Nazis.

There is a higher morality that both secular and some religious sources expound. We start to see this in inchoate form with Jesus of Nazareth and secular leaders like Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.

We see these beginnings in the ministry of Jesus when he (perhaps jokingly or provocatively calls the Canaanite woman a 'dog,' before treating this outsider with love when she gets his joke:

... A Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.”.... He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” ... “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

_ Matthew 15:22-28

[JoeyKnothead]

...
It is all the same... Anyone's ideas influenced by the fizzing in their brain, has root in all human experiences. How would one fizz be more valid then another?

When one's fizz has em oppressing another because they don't like their fizz.

[William]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #125]

Atheism's only role is to prevent irrational rules or morality based on some arbitrary belief about pleasing a non existent being.

Incorrect.

Atheism's only role is to lack belief in gods.

Perhaps you are conflating atheism with antitheism. In doing so, confusion as to the role of atheism will continue.

My role is re my position as Agnostic Neutral, is to make sure that I understand that source of confusion well enough that it does not affect my understanding of the role of atheism, and to share that information with others.

You took my quote out of context, distorting what I wrote:

"Atheism's only role [in the formation of morality] is to prevent irrational rules or morality based on some arbitrary belief about pleasing a non existent being.

If that were the case, why have you quoted exactly what I quoted, only adding "in the formation of morality"?

I did not quote-mine you. I took your statement at face value and critiqued it accordingly - and kept it in the context of the the OP question.

Are you saying that my critique is incorrect?

If so, please respond accordingly.

Meantime, even with the addition, Atheism's only role is to lack belief in gods. It has nothing to do with defining morality or preventing irrational rules or morality based on some arbitrary belief about pleasing a non existent being.

[William]

The problem arises when there is no sufficient reason to establish those foundations for truth, as in materialism, and atheism.

Or even theism.

I fully believe that you understand that things matter. I just dont think you can make sense of why they matter, or establish a foundation for purpose and truth... That is the problem.

It is not necessary to make sense of why they matter.

Why not?

I have not made sense of why they matter and I am doing fine. So, as far as I am concerned, it is not necessary.

Inventing a god as a foundation for purpose or truth does nothing to establish either.

Rejecting a god as a foundation for purpose or truth does nothing to establish anything either.

Rejecting a god claim is not meant to establish anything.

Well you have succeeded in that regard. Rejection of a god claim, establishes nothing.

[Shem Yoshi]

I suppose someone could theorize that a bunch of brains that fizz could agrees to laws, like a collected common sense of brain fizz... Multiple brains could accept established agreed upon law.. Lets say that law is Liberty, and Equality (to mention a few) which i think all people should respect regardless of religious beliefs...

However a collective common sense of brain fizz can lead to mass genocide as well... The Nazi's, and what have you?

You make two great errors. The first is one you've uttered ad nauseam, referring to the amazing and complex interaction of 100 billion neurons with over 100 TRILLION connections as "brain fizz." This devaluation of a wondrous process is a distortion of such magnitude as to be almost indistinguishable from a lie.

The complexity of the brain is not the point of conversation, my point is not that the brain is simple but rather that all truth would be reduced to the perception of the brain. All human knowledge is a result of the functions of the brain, no matter how complex or simple it is (in a materialistic view). That is the point.

Your other great error is your mention of genocide. As I've outlined explicitly human morality only applies within the species or tribe. The morality of the Bible is exactly the same, applying morality only within the tribe. "God" repeatedly tells the Israelites to commit genocide against other tribes (including the murder of children), to steal their possessions and givies them permission to enslave other tribes. In this respect the "God" of Israel has the same morality of the Nazis.

Also i think you are missing the point here as well. I am not arguing to establish what is actually good and actually bad, I am rather pointing to genocide to point out that people have contradicting ideas of morality.

If you want to have a discussion of what is actually right and wrong, like if what God did was wrong, you would first need to establish your brain fizz has some kind of objectivity over someone else's brain fizz.

There is a higher morality that both secular and some religious sources expound. We start to see this in inchoate form with Jesus of Nazareth and secular leaders like Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.

We see these beginnings in the ministry of Jesus when he (perhaps jokingly or provocatively calls the Canaanite woman a 'dog,' before treating this outsider with love when she gets his joke:

... A Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.”.... He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” ... “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.” Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

_ Matthew 15:22-28

So you believe Jesus was wrong to say that? Your fizz is telling you that, eh? fascinating...

[Purple Knight]

Meantime, even with the addition, Atheism's only role is to lack belief in gods. It has nothing to do with defining morality or preventing irrational rules or morality based on some arbitrary belief about pleasing a non existent being.

Ideally it would do that. I agree with Diogenes. Ideally lacking a belief in gods would prevent people from falling back on those gods as a reason for morality that can't be disputed and justifying any random belief. Ideally this would force people to think and have good, reasonable reasons for moral rules.

But it doesn't do that because people don't want to think. Instead of redefining the reasons why we ought not to murder in terms of rationality and logic, people replaced "don't murder because God said not to" with "don't murder because of course don't murder what is wrong with you everybody knows don't murder." In other words, we replaced "because God" with "you can't ask that question, dummy."

I only wish most people advocating that we don't have to have the answer to why murder is wrong were as forthright about it as Brunumb. He flat-out says, we don't need to know the answer to why something is morally wrong, it just is. I respect that.

[brunumb]

But if scientific materialism is true, and the physical world is all there is, and humans consciousness is nothing more then a brain fizzing with chemicals... Then what does it matter what you believe?

A lot, if it means demonising certain groups of people, restricting their human rights, encouraging hate and even the killing of some people. Religious belief is not as benign as you might like to think it is. For example, hop across to Nigeria where believers are killing people believed to be witches. Maybe flying planes into buildings because your god says it's a good thing doesn't really matter.

Even if we are just brains fizzing with chemicals (enough already) we are still thinking, feeling and caring beings who deserve to live out whatever life we have in the best way possible.

For clarification... Do you believe abortion is ok?

I am not opposed to abortion.

Well like your opinion that aborting fetus's is ok, I suppose Nigeria believes killing witches is ok.

Nope. Not Nigeria. Christian pastors and believers in Nigeria. There is a big difference between a fetus and a person accused of being a witch. By the way, up to three quarters of all conceptions fail to come to term without any human intervention. If you want to make an issue of abortion take it up with God, because by those statistics he is the ultimate abortionist.

[Shem Yoshi]

But if scientific materialism is true, and the physical world is all there is, and humans consciousness is nothing more then a brain fizzing with chemicals... Then what does it matter what you believe?

A lot, if it means demonising certain groups of people, restricting their human rights, encouraging hate and even the killing of some people. Religious belief is not as benign as you might like to think it is. For example, hop across to Nigeria where believers are killing people believed to be witches. Maybe flying planes into buildings because your god says it's a good thing doesn't really matter.

Even if we are just brains fizzing with chemicals (enough already) we are still thinking, feeling and caring beings who deserve to live out whatever life we have in the best way possible.

For clarification... Do you believe abortion is ok?

I am not opposed to abortion.

Well like your opinion that aborting fetus's is ok, I suppose Nigeria believes killing witches is ok.

Nope. Not Nigeria. Christian pastors and believers in Nigeria. There is a big difference between a fetus and a person accused of being a witch.

Well i would like to point out "Nigeria" was still a correct description of the people. And just to clarify, killing witches can be shown to go against Christ teachings (John 8 and the New Testament as a whole), no matter if they identify as Christians or not.

[TRANSPONDER]

But if scientific materialism is true, and the physical world is all there is, and humans consciousness is nothing more then a brain fizzing with chemicals... Then what does it matter what you believe?

A lot, if it means demonising certain groups of people, restricting their human rights, encouraging hate and even the killing of some people. Religious belief is not as benign as you might like to think it is. For example, hop across to Nigeria where believers are killing people believed to be witches. Maybe flying planes into buildings because your god says it's a good thing doesn't really matter.

Even if we are just brains fizzing with chemicals (enough already) we are still thinking, feeling and caring beings who deserve to live out whatever life we have in the best way possible.

For clarification... Do you believe abortion is ok?

I am not opposed to abortion.

Well like your opinion that aborting fetus's is ok, I suppose Nigeria believes killing witches is ok.

Nope. Not Nigeria. Christian pastors and believers in Nigeria. There is a big difference between a fetus and a person accused of being a witch.

Well i would like to point out "Nigeria" was still a correct description of the people. And just to clarify, killing witches can be shown to go against Christ teachings (John 8 and the New Testament as a whole), no matter if they identify as Christians or not.

But even if that is so (and do please explain how John 8 teaches not to kill witches),it is better to be an atheist because (as a basis of Thought) atheism as a mindset goes with rationality, skepticism and reason and thus,does not credit supernatural, Alternative science and magical claims, so killing witches would not be a Thing (though debunking them as rationality debunks dowsing, astrology and crop circles as well as miracles, religion and Gods from outer Space, would be) that it would have to disclaim as nothing to do with us and not our fault.

[Clownboat]

Should I become an atheist and why?

What are the benefits, practices, beliefs? Any good conversion stories?

Yes, give it a shot. I think it takes little convincing. As Christopher Hitchens said, " whatever reasons you use to reject every other deity, simply apply them to your own." As far as the benefits of atheism, I imagine a bit of stress relief, i.e. no spirtual forces messing with me. No holy book to try to figure out. Don't have to go to church, observe holy days, rituals, or get frustrated with unanswered prayers or be burdened with theological mysteries, why God allows suffering etc. I don't think boredom would be an issue though, there's plenty of hobbies to do. But, there's the nagging what if I'm wrong dilemma, but religious people gave that too.

Hitchens - "whatever reasons you use to reject every other deity, simply apply them to your own."

Yes, but I followed Hitchens's advice and here I am as a Christian. I wonder where Hitchens would be if he listened to his own advice.

So you applied faith and you are now a Christian-Muslim-Hindu? How does that work? Perhaps you didn't apply your faith equally? I say this as faith is the only requirement in order to become a religious believer.