Where do Rights Come From?

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Purple Knight
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Where do Rights Come From?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

Question for Debate: Where do rights come from?

Put another way, do I ever have a right to just make up rights and unilaterally impose on you not to do things?
I might, for example, make up a right not to hear voices I find annoying and demand they not speak in my presence. I might get offended because I don't like the scent of the air you breathed out so I demand you stop breathing at once. I might take anything in the world I don't like that is bothering me, construct it as something you have done to me, and say I have a legitimate right to be free of whatever that bothersome thing is.

Your right that you have, preventing me from murdering you, does it exist even if I disagree?

A Libertarian will say, rights simply are, and they are what they are, and they are not what they're not. But that just means, in practice, that Libertarians and only Libertarians decide on rights. Maybe rights really are written into the Stone Table at the time when the Deep Magic began the universe, and Libertarians happen to be correct about what they are, but I don't have the Stone Table in front of me to see that they're correct, so as far as I'm concerned I'm under no obligation to go along with their nonsense.

It's tricky business because the lot of you will not agree that I can just decide that the right not to be murdered is invalid and go on a killing spree, but you will disagree with many of the Libertarian's rights-which-simply-are-and-you-can't-contest-them. And if rights simply are, despite objections, then nothing stands in the way of the Libertarian's right to blackmail, because all you can do is object and objections don't invalidate rights.

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #11

Post by Shem Yoshi »

Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.


Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property, and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #12

Post by Shem Yoshi »

I should totally test it out in drag and talk about LGBT things.
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #13

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:18 am I should totally test it out in drag and talk about LGBT things.
At least with the LGBT things, you'd be talking about something that can actually be shown to exist.
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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #14

Post by Miles »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:03 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.

Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...
Good for them for shutting you down. You had no right to go onto school property and to talk to high schoolers about anything.

"Public buildings aren’t always open to the public. For example, you can’t walk into a public kindergarten class in the middle of the day just to assess the quality of instruction."
source: N. C. law

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property,
No doubt the drag queen was invited. Were you?

and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
So, what were you charged with?

.

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #15

Post by Shem Yoshi »

Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:20 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:03 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.

Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...
Good for them for shutting you down. You had no right to go onto school property and to talk to high schoolers about anything.

"Public buildings aren’t always open to the public. For example, you can’t walk into a public kindergarten class in the middle of the day just to assess the quality of instruction."
source: N. C. law

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property,
No doubt the drag queen was invited. Were you?

and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
So, what were you charged with?

.
Well im sorry you dont believe someone should have the right to publicly talk on sidewalks... I however believe everyone should have that right... 'We the people' ought to support the liberties of others, even if we disagree with them.

That said, I oppose your distain for human rights and liberty.

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."~JFK
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #16

Post by Miles »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:39 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:20 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:03 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.

Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...
Good for them for shutting you down. You had no right to go onto school property and to talk to high schoolers about anything.

"Public buildings aren’t always open to the public. For example, you can’t walk into a public kindergarten class in the middle of the day just to assess the quality of instruction."
source: N. C. law

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property,
No doubt the drag queen was invited. Were you?

and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
So, what were you charged with?

.
Well im sorry you dont believe someone should have the right to publicly talk on sidewalks...
"Sidewalk"??? You said "they refused me to be on their property," which I took to mean they refused to let you on school property. And I assume your ultimate goal in getting onto public school property was to preach to students about Jesus Christ. No? Here's a FYI for you. It's against the law. Plain and simple. You can't do it. I can't do it. And the Pope can't do it.

I however believe everyone should have that right... 'We the people' ought to support the liberties of others, even if we disagree with them.
But you have to realize some rights come with lawful caveats, conditions, restrictions, and stipulations.

That said, I oppose your distain for human rights and liberty.
Sorry that you think Constitutional rights and liberties are wholly without restrictions and constraints of any kind, but so be it.


By the way, we still haven't heard what you were charged with. Care to fill us in on your arrest?



.

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #17

Post by Shem Yoshi »

Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:50 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:39 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:20 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:03 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.

Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...
Good for them for shutting you down. You had no right to go onto school property and to talk to high schoolers about anything.

"Public buildings aren’t always open to the public. For example, you can’t walk into a public kindergarten class in the middle of the day just to assess the quality of instruction."
source: N. C. law

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property,
No doubt the drag queen was invited. Were you?

and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
So, what were you charged with?

.
Well im sorry you dont believe someone should have the right to publicly talk on sidewalks...
"Sidewalk"??? You said "they refused me to be on their property," which I took to mean they refused to let you on school property. And I assume your ultimate goal in getting onto public school property was to preach to students about Jesus Christ. No? Here's a FYI for you. It's against the law. Plain and simple. You can't do it. I can't do it. And the Pope can't do it.

I however believe everyone should have that right... 'We the people' ought to support the liberties of others, even if we disagree with them.
But you have to realize some rights come with lawful caveats, conditions, restrictions, and stipulations.

That said, I oppose your distain for human rights and liberty.
Sorry that you think Constitutional rights and liberties are wholly without restrictions and constraints of any kind, but so be it.


By the way, we still haven't heard what you were charged with. Care to fill us in on your arrest?



.
Here is what i said. "they refused me to be on their property, and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me."

It doesnt say I tried to go in a class room, like you were amusing...

This is the story, the first day I talked with students at the end of the school day outside of school, like in the grass on their property. School officials told me I could not be on their property. So i stood on a the corner of the sidewalk across the street. I was harassed every day i was there, they said they would arrest me for blocking students path, when i never blocked students paths, they were condescending with they way they propagated law, like saying public sidewalks were not public sidewalks, and eventually they arrested saying I was too loud, in an atmosphere with hundreds of students and cars driving by, me publicly speaking was too loud... I was harassed by the authorities because they didnt like what i was doing for whatever personal reasons they had. I broke no laws and was practicing my first amendment.
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #18

Post by Miles »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:13 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:50 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:39 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:20 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:03 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.

Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...
Good for them for shutting you down. You had no right to go onto school property and to talk to high schoolers about anything.

"Public buildings aren’t always open to the public. For example, you can’t walk into a public kindergarten class in the middle of the day just to assess the quality of instruction."
source: N. C. law

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property,
No doubt the drag queen was invited. Were you?

and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
So, what were you charged with?

.
Well im sorry you dont believe someone should have the right to publicly talk on sidewalks...
"Sidewalk"??? You said "they refused me to be on their property," which I took to mean they refused to let you on school property. And I assume your ultimate goal in getting onto public school property was to preach to students about Jesus Christ. No? Here's a FYI for you. It's against the law. Plain and simple. You can't do it. I can't do it. And the Pope can't do it.

I however believe everyone should have that right... 'We the people' ought to support the liberties of others, even if we disagree with them.
But you have to realize some rights come with lawful caveats, conditions, restrictions, and stipulations.

That said, I oppose your distain for human rights and liberty.
Sorry that you think Constitutional rights and liberties are wholly without restrictions and constraints of any kind, but so be it.


By the way, we still haven't heard what you were charged with. Care to fill us in on your arrest?



.
Here is what i said. "they refused me to be on their property, and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me."

It doesnt say I tried to go in a class room, like you were amusing...
And I never assumed you tried to go in a class room, which is why I never said or even intimated you did.

This is the story, the first day I talked with students at the end of the school day outside of school, like in the grass on their property. School officials told me I could not be on their property. So i stood on a the corner of the sidewalk across the street. I was harassed every day i was there, they said they would arrest me for blocking students path, when i never blocked students paths, they were condescending with they way they propagated law, like saying public sidewalks were not public sidewalks, and eventually they arrested saying I was too loud, in an atmosphere with hundreds of students and cars driving by, me publicly speaking was too loud... I was harassed by the authorities because they didnt like me doing what i was doing for whatever personal reasons they had. I broke no laws and was practicing my first amendment.
Sorry to hear this. but prejudice and bigotry seem to run very easily through the minds of far too many people, and it's particularly disquieting to hear it happen among those who have the ability to put it into action.

Curious as to the size of town or city you were in, and where.

.

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #19

Post by Shem Yoshi »

Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:28 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:13 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:50 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:39 pm
Miles wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:20 pm
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:03 am
Miles wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:36 pm
Davado wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm Protestant Christians won and invented the right to free speech Which makes the subversion of it by every other Christian forum hard to explain.
They enthusiastically over moderate and ban willynilly.
What are modern Christians afraid of ?
Congratulations for making this one free speech

"Protestant Christians" you say. Hmmm. I think not. Simply consider the following:

"Freedom of speech—the right to express opinions without government restraint—is a democratic ideal that dates back to ancient Greece. In the United States, the First Amendment guarantees free speech, though the United States, like all modern democracies, places limits on this freedom. In a series of landmark cases, the U.S. Supreme Court over the years has helped to define what types of speech are—and aren’t—protected under U.S. law.

The ancient Greeks pioneered free speech as a democratic principle. The ancient Greek word “parrhesia” means “free speech,” or “to speak candidly.” The term first appeared in Greek literature around the end of the fifth century B.C.

During the classical period [500-336 BC], parrhesia became a fundamental part of the democracy of Athens. Leaders, philosophers, playwrights and everyday Athenians were free to openly discuss politics and religion and to criticize the government in some settings.
source

.
And yet they killed Socrates.

Funny, reminds me of the case i got out of 5 days ago, convicted for my first amendment talking to high schoolers about Jesus Christ...
Good for them for shutting you down. You had no right to go onto school property and to talk to high schoolers about anything.

"Public buildings aren’t always open to the public. For example, you can’t walk into a public kindergarten class in the middle of the day just to assess the quality of instruction."
source: N. C. law

A drag queen they let walk through the front doors and have story time, but me talking about Jesus Christ, they refused me to be on their property,
No doubt the drag queen was invited. Were you?

and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me.
So, what were you charged with?

.
Well im sorry you dont believe someone should have the right to publicly talk on sidewalks...
"Sidewalk"??? You said "they refused me to be on their property," which I took to mean they refused to let you on school property. And I assume your ultimate goal in getting onto public school property was to preach to students about Jesus Christ. No? Here's a FYI for you. It's against the law. Plain and simple. You can't do it. I can't do it. And the Pope can't do it.

I however believe everyone should have that right... 'We the people' ought to support the liberties of others, even if we disagree with them.
But you have to realize some rights come with lawful caveats, conditions, restrictions, and stipulations.

That said, I oppose your distain for human rights and liberty.
Sorry that you think Constitutional rights and liberties are wholly without restrictions and constraints of any kind, but so be it.


By the way, we still haven't heard what you were charged with. Care to fill us in on your arrest?



.
Here is what i said. "they refused me to be on their property, and after a few days on a corner across the street from the school they arrested me."

It doesnt say I tried to go in a class room, like you were amusing...
And I never assumed you tried to go in a class room, which is why I never said or even intimated you did.

This is the story, the first day I talked with students at the end of the school day outside of school, like in the grass on their property. School officials told me I could not be on their property. So i stood on a the corner of the sidewalk across the street. I was harassed every day i was there, they said they would arrest me for blocking students path, when i never blocked students paths, they were condescending with they way they propagated law, like saying public sidewalks were not public sidewalks, and eventually they arrested saying I was too loud, in an atmosphere with hundreds of students and cars driving by, me publicly speaking was too loud... I was harassed by the authorities because they didnt like me doing what i was doing for whatever personal reasons they had. I broke no laws and was practicing my first amendment.
Sorry to hear this. but prejudice and bigotry seem to run very easily through the minds of far too many people, and it's particularly disquieting to hear it happen among those who have the ability to put it into action.

Curious as to the size of town or city you were in, and where.

.
That time I was in Grand Junction Colorado, about 100,000 people... However these things are not isolated. Jesus Christ warned his followers of the truth, "But you, be on your guard! They will hand you over to local courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues. You will stand before governors and kings because of me, as a witness to them." (Mark 13:9)

At first I was surprised that these things actually happen in America, but i am no longer surprised. I have been in jail 3 times, and been given many tickets for the Gospel sake. The first time i went to jail a prophet prophesied of it, and told me to be aware of my 4th amendment. I was knocking on doors sharing the Gospel, and a police officer came and order me to take off my jacket, but the fourth amendment tells us we can say no to searches. So i said 'no'...He then pulled out a taser and tased me and put me in jail for resisting arrest.... That was in Oakley Idaho, very small town...

I was also arrested in Rome, detained at the Vatican as i publicly read Act 7.

Jesus Christ said these things would happen.
“Them that die'll be the lucky ones.”

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Re: Where do Rights Come From?

Post #20

Post by Purple Knight »

Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:53 amif they want to restrict the speech of a person, it goes out universally to all people by the definition of liberty. So say one person is annoying another with speech and you restrict that, well anyone that annoys someone else is now in jeopardy of the law.
I wish it were.

I heard a great justification of the idea that this is really not the case, and I have to say I agree with it. They were talking about hate speech, and why white people shouldn't be able to complain.

Let's say I go to a workplace where we horse around. I actually have been as a line cook, and the managers always yelled at us when we started towel snapping and things like that. But nobody said anybody was abusing anyone else, even though we got pretty rough.

Now let's say that one of these fellows had a wife he abused. Let's say she gets the same job and comes to work with him. Let's say he towel snaps her just the same (really hard), but instead of being joking about it, he glares at her.

The same act that is not wrong when it's between people who don't have an unpleasant history, can become wrong when that act is a continuation of previous or ongoing abuse.

I hate that I agree with this reasoning but I can't find a flaw in it. I hate it because I want the rules to be the same for everyone, but I don't think they are.
Shem Yoshi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:13 pmI was harassed by the authorities because they didnt like what i was doing for whatever personal reasons they had. I broke no laws and was practicing my first amendment.
This is a perfect example of how grey areas work. Who has a right to use the sidewalk and for what? I am also in Colorado and we have homeless people genuinely blocking the way and nobody can do anything because "everyone has a right to use the sidewalk, it's public property." They sleep on the bus benches and nobody else can get in there.

I absolutely believe you that this happened because I know exactly how grey the use of sidewalks is. If somebody doesn't like it, you don't get to use it. But if nobody cares, the use of a sidewalk will turn into an inalienable right that cannot be infringed. If the business is disliked, the peace ring around it will be allowed. If the business is liked, the ring will be dispersed because people have a right to get to it.

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