How old is God? Why the chair?

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Thomas123
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How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #1

Post by Thomas123 »

Mark 16:19
19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

........
Our perceptions regarding God are now fully anesthetized.
Just as Love is all flowers and red hearts God is a wizard on a throne.

You cannot evolve into God using these infantile analogies.

Many anti-God debaters are using these caricature pop-ups to try and sound profound only to be met by a barrage of placard wielding zombies.

Do we need to change course completely?

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #11

Post by Thomas123 »

Apostles Creed
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.

.............

I was drip fed this for most of my earlier years. Now , I have issues with every line.....it is so utterly unbelievable, not just from a factual point of view but more so in its logistical construct. It appears that Jesus spends most of his time in a lift. No wonder he felt like sitting down.

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #12

Post by Thomas123 »

https://www.walksinrome.com/altar-of-th ... ilica.html

Is the Vatican a museum for preserving Catholicism? Is the Pope the Curator?

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #13

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Thomas123 wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:36 am Apostles Creed
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.

.............

I was drip fed this for most of my earlier years. Now , I have issues with every line.....it is so utterly unbelievable, not just from a factual point of view but more so in its logistical construct. It appears that Jesus spends most of his time in a lift. No wonder he felt like sitting down.
Even the Fundamentalists and genesis -literalists will indignantly reject the Babylonian snow - dome cosmos of a flat circular earth with a dome over it with sun, moon and planets trundling round the interior and God sitting on his throne on top of it. Not surprisingly the incredible vanishing god is also the amazing retreating God, as more is known, God retreats from the solar -system,Galaxy and now the universe, time and space.

In short, God -belief moves from what is frankly a hi -jacked Zeus, with throne, beard and a sheaf of lightning bolts to use against sinful trees, cows and churches that couldn't afford a lightning - conductor to what is succinctly ,nature, but postulated to have will, direction and purpose, which on evidence, it doesn't.

No, no, even the Faithful have rejected these god -made-in-human- image conceptions and moving towards a more Cosmic Mind idea. And there are even apparent rumbling doubts about one that intervenes in human affairs.

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #14

Post by Thomas123 »

If we examine the quality of theological instruction contained within the Apostles Creed we see a typical example of what is available.

This is a carefully blended cocktail of things that range from the semi -believable out to pure theological fantasy. These two extremes are subtly mixed to appeal to both the learned and the simple and are made to calm both

You have an historical Roman figure ,beside a cosmos making God.You have a Catholic Church in Rome, beside a promise of everlasting life.,....

Learned literalist and educated atheists maul over the bones of these prehistoric presentations of God belief, while the masses trudge on in comatosed oblivion.

Tell me it is not so!
A Virgin Mother begets a God?

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #15

Post by Thomas123 »

Image

This is the result of an 'iconic' religion, ....a mishmash of confusing cartoons. All right for children, and beautiful in their own right, but,....terribly, terribly, pagan and nonsensical.
Not instructive and not relevant to either God or Jesus.
The Vatican is the world's most extravagant theme park.

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #16

Post by TRANSPONDER »

One has to ask 'who is this for?' 'Do we need it?' 'Is it worth the money?' Just as people will wonder about art, maintaining symphony orchestras or remaining royalty, when most people are content with their car, pizza and Netflix.

I've heard this about the money spent on space research, though the news that we can, now, save ourselves from an asteroid strike must make all the money spent seem worthwhile, even if all the cool discoveries mean nothing to them.

But by a very odd coincidence, the maintenance of two very expensive and increasingly queried institutions - Church and Royalty - becomes not so much that these traditions are real and true but are somehow socially valuable.

A p .s...and possible Topic. This reminded me of 'The name of the Rose'. A Christian work - colleague who was always jabbing at me with hoped for'atheist - stumpers' (1) recommended me this book and I enjoyed it though eye -rolling at the dumb attempt to leach off Sherlock Holmes (William of Baskerville indeed :roll: ). And I actually bought the video of the film ....hang on, :| ..I'm getting to the point... which would have been pretty forgettable without Sean Connery doing his best with it. But one exchange is branded in my head:- a debate between the Franciscans and the Vatican representative.."Did ...Christ...or did he not.." (bleats the grey - clad friar) 'own the Clothes He wore?" To which the atheist (had he been invited to participate in the debate rather than test - drive the new Rack) might have caustically replied: "And do the pins upon which the angels dance in God's heaven have heads of gold or not?" But the Cardinal in his red boater with the dangly ribbons snaps: "The question is not whether Christ was poor, but whether the Church should be poor". To which the Friar nods. So that's the question and a relevant one, because i had a Google just now and the point was either ignored or deflected as how much of the roll - in - it should be used to help the poor.

(1) no, not the one who got me to 'Really read the Bible', but another. There have been a few who would not cease and desist from trying to convert the atheist..

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #17

Post by Thomas123 »

Thanks TRANSPONER,for your input here. Many churches are beautiful works of art, they are testimony to the work of previous generations. We have a saying that you will do nothing without money, but here's the thing.
Putting aside this theological cul-de-sac of iconography, and the cartoon nature of the instruction,offered, there is a more serious problem.

Everything is enshrined here. Everything is nice. Religion and money do not mix. The message of Jesus is about sharing and frugal gratitude.
This is about preservation.
I do not want to attempt to preach but with a hierarchial structure development comes from the top.i seen the Pope on the news yesterday, God he looks terrible!

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #18

Post by Thomas123 »

What are Angel's wings for?

As a curious 8 yr old I used to gaze in wonder at 2 beautiful Angel's on the back wall of our local chapel. I used to wonder about their wings. My Dad often shot pheasants for the pot so that I knew something about the anatomy and function of these things.
A long, long time later and I still have no answer. Surely to God, it is time to clip their wings!
I can only imagine what 8 yr olds nowadays, in chapels are thinking. These are spawning pools for literalists, fundamentalists and atheists, probably in equal measure.
Thanks!

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #19

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:24 pm ...
consider what Isaiah 6:1 says:
(New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)
1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.

And what 1 Kings 22:19 says:
(New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)
19 Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him.
Could it be that the "Lord" in those doesn't mean the one and only true God, but for example Jesus?

And considering what the Bible tells, it is wrong to make images of God sitting on a chair.

“You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Ex. 20:4-5

Perhaps that is, because Bible tells God is spirit and love. Not something that humans could draw.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent,
Acts 17:29-30

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Re: How old is God? Why the chair?

Post #20

Post by TRANSPONDER »

1213 wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:45 am
Miles wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:24 pm ...
consider what Isaiah 6:1 says:
(New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)
1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.

And what 1 Kings 22:19 says:
(New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)
19 Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him.
Could it be that the "Lord" in those doesn't mean the one and only true God, but for example Jesus?

And considering what the Bible tells, it is wrong to make images of God sitting on a chair.

“You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Ex. 20:4-5

Perhaps that is, because Bible tells God is spirit and love. Not something that humans could draw.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent,
Acts 17:29-30
Oh I don't think the injunction against graven images is against mental pictures of God's palace and his decor and furnishings. It's just to stop the Hebrews from imitating all the heathens and their idols. The OT was always about keeping the identity of the Hebrews distinct from any and all other nations with their various pantheons of national deities. And in that, they have been remarkably successful.

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